Last use of non-bogie passenger carrying stock on scheduled services

Following on from discussions about pre nationalisation stock I have often wondered when the last 4 or 6 wheel carriages were withdrawn from passenger service, and where they were last used

Just to be clear: I am not referring to 'Pacers', the 1950s railbuses or vans, carriage trucks etc., hauled passenger carriages is what I am looking for.

Growing up in South London in the 1960s it was pretty much EMUs and the occasional inter regional service, but did any survive this late elsewhere.

To get the ball rolling, the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley used some remarkable stock, 4-wheelers converted from 6-wheelers IIRC. These services ended in 1953.

Passenger coaches are one thing; vehicles carrying passengers quite another. There were brake van specials which ran in more recent times.

Rescars said:

To get the ball rolling, the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley used some remarkable stock, 4-wheelers converted from 6-wheelers IIRC. These services ended in 1953.

Passenger coaches are one thing; vehicles carrying passengers quite another. There were brake van specials which ran in more recent times.

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I think the BPGVR examples, used to carry miners and lacking upholstery, could have been the very last 4-wheelers in service, although not shown in a public timetable.

Some ex Caledonian 6 wheel coaches survived into post nationalisation days. Whether or not they were actually used I don't know.

I saw "BZ" six wheeled guards/brake/parcels vans in use on Waterloo-Exeter a couple of times on class 50 hauled passenger sets. No idea how they got round speed restrictions on the van

Acathater said:

I saw "BZ" six wheeled guards/brake/parcels vans in use on Waterloo-Exeter a couple of times on class 50 hauled passenger sets. No idea how they got round speed restrictions on the van

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Strange. I thought that all the BZ had been withdrawn well before the Class 50 started driver-training on the route in January 1980. Possibly they were in Departmental use, but may well have been BR-built.

Acathater said:

No idea how they got round speed restrictions on the van

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Do you know what the speed restriction was? I was using the Waterloo Exeter service around once a week at that period for about 6 months, and never saw one.

mike57 said:

Do you know what the speed restriction was? I was using the Waterloo Exeter service around once a week at that period for about 6 months, and never saw one.

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75mph I'd expect, in common with similar vans.

The WoE then and now is 85mph.

mike57 said:

Do you know what the speed restriction was? I was using the Waterloo Exeter service around once a week at that period for about 6 months, and never saw one.

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I assume 75, as hexagon says above
They certainly weren't common on the route

Didn't the Isle of Wight have some 4 wheelers very late?

If we look beyond our shores, Talgo sets don't use conventional bogies...

Mid Suffolk Light Railway

Not quite 6 wheelers to the end but not far from it.

While this is a digression to the OP question, I too would question BZ on Wloo-Exet in class 50 days, and support the other 2 posters making the same suggestion.

Apart from anything else, no core Wloo Exet set had any NPCCS van in any of them, at least from 1971, if not from 1964.

The core trains were fixed formation load 10 with 42s (because of Waterloo length limits) and load 8 with 33s (for load limits with ETH on, or 9 with ETH off) and BZ were gone anyway before 50s so set formation irrelavant.

1971-1980 with 33s, nor with D800s until 10/71 the only "vans" in the regular passenger sets in 42s/33s days were two coupled adjacent BSKs not at the ends of sets, there was not even BG involved, nor did those trains convey tail load vans.

50s took over May 1980; Web search says the last BZ withdrawn June 1979 => 50s could not have worked the route with BZ in train.

Since 10/71 the line has ETH only stock; for BZ to be fixed in a set it would need to be ETH wired => but were there any ? I'd suggest no?

I do remember seeing BZs very occasionally in the early 1970s on NPCCS workings east of Salisbury, but in dedicated parcels trains, not part of passenger trains, invariably with 33s.

Before anyone suggests it, the 0140 Wloo Yeovil papers and return although was not a core Exter Wloo set, but still w.r.t. to vans it had semi permanently dedicated special ETH wired and heated GUVs or BGs (depending which dates you look at) and not any old 4/6/8w truck.

Spartacus said:

Didn't the Isle of Wight have some 4 wheelers very late?

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This was the first area I thought of.

I did wonder about the vale of Rheidol line, which was part of BR until 1989, but its only 4-wheeler is a full brake

norbitonflyer said:

I did wonder about the vale of Rheidol line, which was part of BR until 1989, but its only 4-wheeler is a full brake

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As the OP didn't specify BR, there's the Talyllyn and Festiniog which have continued to use their 4-wheelers.

(Don't think the modern rebuilds of bungalows etc count though, impressive though they are.)

Ireland introduced four and six wheeled heating vans for passenger trains, with the advent of dieselisation in the '50s.

The detached 5ft 3in Waterford and Tramore line still had some six-wheeled passenger stock right up to dieselisstion in 1955.

The Co. Donegal Rly normally used railcars, but some four-wheeled passenger stock remained for excursions right up to closure in 1960.

Did any of the surviving light railways use 4 or 6-wheeled stock in their later years? There were lots of 6-wheelers on the likes of the Culm Valley line right up to closure, but unhelpfully they were milk tankers rather than passenger stock.