Penalty Fare after boarding delayed earlier train with ticket for later train

notmeyat · Monday at 06:53

Hi everyone,

I’m looking for some advice about a situation I had on the railway.

I had purchased a ticket for the 6:17 train, but I was actually travelling on the 5:48 train, which was delayed. My ticket was checked by an inspector at around 6:06, while I was on the delayed 5:48 service.

I had originally planned to travel on the 6:17 train, but because the 5:48 service was delayed, I got on that train instead.

The inspector issued me with a notice/penalty fare because my ticket was for the 6:17 service.

Does anyone know how this would normally be treated? Would the fact that the 5:48 was delayed and I had a valid ticket for the 6:17 service be relevant when appealing?

I’m particularly interested in whether the inspector would be able to see which train my ticket was originally purchased for and what information they would have recorded about the incident.

Thanks in advance.

RailUK Forums

AlterEgo · Monday at 06:59

Please upload a copy of the notice with your personal details removed.

Where were you travelling from and to, and was your original ticket type an Advance, an Off Peak, or an Anytime? Inspectors can see whether you are travelling oj the booked train or not on an advance ticket.

Mcr Warrior · Monday at 07:52

notmeyat said:
Does anyone know how this would normally be treated? Would the fact that the 5:48 was delayed and I had a valid ticket for the 6:17 service be relevant when appealing?

If you only had a (booked train only) advance single ticket, which essentially isn't a flexible ticket, why did you board the earlier train, which wasn't the one you were booked on? Was the later 06:17 service, that you were booked on to, cancelled, perhaps?

AlterEgo · Monday at 08:41

There are many avenues of appeal for penalty fares, at least a dozen I can think of could apply in this case. That is why we need to see the notice, with the OP's name and address redacted. A notice can often be filled out improperly or the wrong fare charged which makes it unlawful.

It's not correct to suggest that a train cancellation could be the OP's only avenue of appeal.

gray1404 · Monday at 16:54

I think we need to see a copy of the notice they were issued with and also details of the train they were booked to travel on. The date and stations travel was between and not just the times.

notmeyat · Tuesday at 11:12

Hi, I’m hoping someone can advise me on a penalty fare situation.

I bought a ticket for the 6:17 train, but I ended up travelling on the 5:48 train, which was delayed. My ticket was checked at around 6:06 while I was on the 5:48 service.

I had originally intended to take the 6:17 train, but because the 5:48 was delayed, I decided to get on it instead.

The inspector issued me with a penalty fare because my ticket was for the 6:17 train.

Would the fact that the 5:48 was delayed and I had already purchased a ticket for the 6:17 be relevant if I appeal? Also, would the inspector be able to see which train my ticket was purchased for? but the ticket is anytime so valid for both trains

Thanks!

methecooldude · Tuesday at 11:15

The question is when did you buy your ticket. Its valid for use on any train, but only if it was purchased before the departure of the train were on from Coventry

notmeyat · Tuesday at 11:27

so i was planning to get the 6.17 train but since the earlier train was delayed i tried to get a ticket for the earlier train but there were no ti kets so i got thr ticket for the next train

MarlowDonkey · Tuesday at 11:33

There does seem a persistent notion in some quarters that all tickets are "Advance", in other words valid only for a particular train. In this case that looks not to be the issue at all, rather that the ticket was purchased after departure. Unless of course that's not the case and the ticket was purchased at the station after the scheduled departure but before the actual one.

WesternLancer · Tuesday at 11:35

notmeyat said:
so i was planning to get the 6.17 train but since the earlier train was delayed i tried to get a ticket for the earlier train but there were no ti kets so i got thr ticket for the next train

Looks to me like your ticket was valid on any train (Anytime ticket) - I suspect the issue is that you failed to by it before getting on the train - not that there were no tickets available.
The rule is to 'Buy Before you Board' - not necessarily on your phone but at a ticket office or ticket machine if there is one of either of those at the station you depart from.

Swedenorer · Tuesday at 11:40

If you travelled on the delayed 05.48 but did not buy the ticket until 06.06 while already on the train you boarded without a valid ticket. I presume the time of purchase on the ticket is correct? According to RTT the 05.48 was only 4 late leaving Coventry. The time stamp on the ticket and that on the PF are only 4 minutes apart...

WesternLancer · Tuesday at 11:40

MarlowDonkey said:
There does seem a persistent notion in some quarters that all tickets are "Advance", in other words valid only for a particular train. In this case that looks not to be the issue at all, rather that the ticket was purchased after departure. Unless of course that's not the case and the ticket was purchased at the station after the scheduled departure but before the actual one.

Yes, I am of the view that the railway in general tends to foster this belief if people don't look in much detail at the rules, and some or many on line booking sites re-enforce that by seemingly asking people to select the train they want to travel on when booking their ticket on line. Of course this is designed to help people get a valid ticket as part of what is a complicated ticketing system in the view of many people.

A ticket called 'Anytime' is expected to be a clue that it is valid for travel at any time of day - but I can appreciate that not everyone would follow that logic, especially say if English is not your first language, for example, or if you rarely travel by train.

But as per other posters the issue here seems to be that the ticket was probably bought after leaving the station - which is not permitted.

I note that the slip uploaded gives the reason for the Penalty Fare as "Purchased After Departure"

I would expect WM Trains stations to have posters that make this clear (although I accept it is easy to miss them if in a hurry) and it is mentioned on this web page

Penalty fares

Don’t risk a fine, get your ticket before you go.

www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk

Where it says (my bolding):

"To travel with us, you need a valid train ticket for your entire journey before you board, otherwise, you may need to pay a Penalty Fare."

I'll leave it to other Penalty Fare experts to say of there are any valid grounds for appeal however, a there may well be.

AlterEgo · Tuesday at 11:51

You've been penalty fared for buying the ticket after departure, while on the train, and the RPI caught you before you got off at Birmingham International. Seems likely you bought the ticket only because you relaised you were about to be inspected. Nothing to do with taking an earlier train.

However the £3.30 charged is for an Avanti Only ticket, and wouldn't have been valid on the train you are on. The fare charged should have been £3.60.

You can try an appeal on that ground but as no detriment was suffered and the error is in your favour I think it is unlikely to succeed.

blimmo · Tuesday at 12:15

OP, how did you get through the barriers at Coventry?

AlterEgo · Tuesday at 12:31

blimmo said:
OP, how did you get through the barriers at Coventry?

They aren't in operation at that time.

Tetchytyke · Tuesday at 12:36

Tickets bought after boarding are not valid for travel, unless there were no retail facilities at the station you boarded at. You bought your ticket whilst on the train therefore you have been given a Penalty Fare for not having a valid ticket. The time of the train is irrelevant to this question. The reason for the penalty Fare is clearly stated on the notice so I don’t know why you think it is because of the time of departure.

This is also why you can’t buy tickets online for the train you are on, hence why you had to choose a later service. The fact you chose a later service isn’t why you got the Penalty Fare though.

Other than the error in the fare- which is in your favour- I can’t see a valid ground for appeal.

John R · Tuesday at 13:07

You appear to have been on the train for 14 minutes before buying a ticket, so you should count yourself fortunate that you are "only" looking at paying a Penalty Fare. You could easily have been less fortunate and referred for prosecution, as waiting that long to purchase a ticket, and doing so shortly before the ticket inspection, would raise considerable suspicion that you were looking to deliberately evade paying for your journey.

It's exactly to counter "purchase when challenged" (or more accurately "just before being inspected") as a method of fare evasion that the rules were changed late last year to make any ticket purchased after departure invalid.

Chiltern 165 · Tuesday at 18:33

What I am concerned about is the potential that OP may cause revenue protection to investigate their other trips (which may also be fraudulent . . .)

@WesternLancer @AlterEgo do you think this is a likely outcome?

WesternLancer · Tuesday at 18:58

Chiltern 165 said:
What I am concerned about is the potential that OP may cause revenue protection to investigate their other trips (which may also be fraudulent . . .)

@WesternLancer @AlterEgo do you think this is a likely outcome?

I'm not sure to be honest. It is of course possible
I suspect that so many Penalty Fares get appeals (which many get turned down) it would seem hard for the train company to then start investigating them all, or even consider doing it.
It's just as plausible that the OP didn't know you can not board a train before buying as it is plausible that they had no intention of buying a ticket at that time of day until they saw there was a risk of an inspector coming down the train.

If I was the OP I think I'd pay the penalty during the 50% prompt payment reduction time period and chalk this up to experience.

furlong · Tuesday at 20:01

So it's the wrong fare and therefore unenforceable. They sold you an invalid ticket for the journey you made - not valid on the train you were using. How their equipment wasn't set up to stop them doing that is anyone's guess! We've seen other cases where their equipment prevented some other types of invalid options from being selected. You can also argue you presented a valid ticket unless it was explained during the selling process that it was not valid to use for a journey already begun: A key contractual term such as that that would have affected your decision to purchase the ticket must be made prominent to you or else may be deemed unenforceable. (It's a recent change and we've not heard of any court cases that have tested it yet but I doubt it will work the way they hope yet.)

An appeal on the grounds of an invalid fare and no financial loss to the railway ought to succeed eventually. There are examples of similar appeals in this forum. But all that said, if you are doing this sort of thing regularly and getting away without paying the correct fare sometimes, you might be best advised just to pay up so as not to draw any further attention to yourself.

And from now on always get the ticket before you board as train companies can and do prosecute people for not doing this. In your circumstances a Penalty Fare was not really appropriate but they could have chosen to prosecute you.

snail · Tuesday at 21:12

furlong said:
So it's the wrong fare and therefore unenforceable. They sold you an invalid ticket for the journey you made - not valid on the train you were using.

How is an Anytime Day Single invalid?

gembercannelle · Tuesday at 21:16

AlterEgo said:
They aren't in operation at that time.

Oh no they often are. Occasionally when 05:47 from Kenilworth is considerably delayed or cancelled I take Uber to Coventry so that I can make my connection there. Upon arrival, I get to negotiate my way through the barriers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 21:19 ==

snail said:
How is an Anytime Day Single invalid?

The OP took WMR train, the fare ought to be £3.60. The PFN reads £3.30, this is Avanti-only fare.

AlterEgo · Tuesday at 21:22

snail said:
How is an Anytime Day Single invalid?

Because as explained upthread, they've sold an Avanti Only fare on a WMT service.

Tetchytyke · Tuesday at 22:32

Chiltern 165 said:
What I am concerned about is the potential that OP may cause revenue protection to investigate their other trips (which may also be fraudulent . . .)

They will (or won’t) do that irrespective of whether the OP appeals or pays up.

The advice for any such follow up is simple: ignore it.

reb0118 · 2026-09-09T21:17:51+0100

furlong said:
How their equipment wasn't set up to stop them doing that is anyone's guess!

Our on train system, Star Mobile, only blocks invalid options from & to the start and end points of one's ad hoc duty - if an intermediate, or off route, station is selected then all walk up fares are available to issue (often with disastrous results).

Conversely, when excessing tickets, even from/to intermediate/off route stations, the system hides all options that are not valid for one's train - when one expressly needs that fare to excess it. One has to select "show all fares". Then one doesn't just get all walk up fares but almost absolutely everything available is shown!

Completely counter intuitive.

Penalty Fare after boarding delayed earlier train with ticket for later train

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