Thats good. I was thinking today when using the HOWL that it would be odd to see a 197 there. I expect we would just get used to it.
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TfW ‘Active Travel’ Class 153 progress updates
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chargesmith
Member
I didn't know that. 170s would have been an improvement but I think they are only 10 ish years newer than the 153s.
Hopefully there'll be a strategy along at some point soon to improve service on the whole line after 2033 (including strategic parts of the line e.g. more Swansea to Llandeilo or Llandovery services as part of a future Swansea Metro) that could justify ordering new units which could be used on both on the existing 4/5tpd and any new services.
I think I read somewhere that 2 cars is the current limit for the line, not sure why though.
170s were going to stay and do Pembroke Dock (so I assume Swanline as well as that's one service now) as well as the Heart of Wales. They would have been about 15 years newer than the 153s.
Perhaps when TFW are finally ready to throw the towel in with unreliable MK4s then we might get new trains on all Manchesters and enough 197s to move elsewhere.
The active travel sets aren't too bad however it's just the leg room that's an issue and the tables are very cramped in the active travel carriage. The other carriage is a bit better. I noticed when travelling on a non active travel pair of 153s the leg room seemed worse on the airline seats than on the active travel unit
BenBracken
Member
I’m surprised that 197s haven’t had any clearance runs on the HoWL. 175s were cleared and I believe did very occasional passenger services?
They were going to, it was pencilled in for a long way back but its currently on the back burner and postponed for now at least.
IIRC there was a clousure a few years back which incorporated some changes to allow them to go down there.
chargesmith
Member
I did the HOWL end to end a few years ago and the legroom was crazy, I'm only 5 foot 4 and I had to sit at a table seat because the airline style seats were so close together it was uncomfortable, thankfully it was quiet enough that I could use the table area to myself. I dread to think what it would be like on a busy service.
I did sit at a table for a while but wanted to be on the right hand side (facing the direction of travel) to attempt a video crossing the amazing Cynghordy viaduct. And all tables were taken this side. This was a 'normal' pair of 153s.
On the return it was an active travel set and in the carriage with the bike spaces I find the table seats even worse than the airline seats. The table is far too close to your body. No space. So i always opt for the other carriage but no free table seats in this carriage.
Its not the most comfortable overall however despite the 153s having a reasonably good refurb in recent years. A 197 for comfort would be better although not sure how the ride quality would be on the HOWL!
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Its good to know the plan is there for them to go on the HOWL at some point. It would be useful once all the 150s have gone to have 197s to cover. Saying that in recent times its been the 153s covering for the 197s rarely the other way around.
animationmilo
Member
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Maybe once they are bedded in and part of the furniture on cambian they might route test down heart of wales
DelW
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There were concerns that the transmission of the 170s would prove to be unsuitable for the HoW - IIRC it changes gear at around 40mph which is line speed on much of the line. The comments came from posters who would have been in a position to know. I don't know how difficult it might have been to re-gear the transmission.
4-car sets have run from the south end at least to Builth (possibly Llan'dod) on the Royal Welsh show specials.
The table seats in the active (/5) coaches are really only usable by two people, either sitting side by side or diagonally opposite each other.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
The 100mph 170s change up at 65-70mph; 90mph 158s (for reference) change up at about 55mph and 75mph Sprinters (including 153s) change up at about 45mph.
They all have Voith T211 two-stage hydraulic transmissions but with different final drive ratios to get the different top speeds, affecting the change-up point.
The Heart of Wales line has a maximum line speed of up to 60mph, so your point still stands that the 170s would stay in the lower 'stage' of the transmissions.
DelW
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Thanks, looks like I'd remembered the general principle but not the right numbers!
craigybagel
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Assuming the transmissions on 170s work the same as all the others, those speeds only apply at full power. If a lower power notch is selected, they'll change over at a lower speed too. It's likely that on reaching the line speed (50-60 depending on the section) and the driver reduced power to avoid speeding, they would have switched into the second stage.
They would have also been able to stretch their legs up to 90mph north of Craven Arms, albeit briefly.
The Royal Welsh specials have certainly been worked by 4-car class 150 formations in the past. Also, railtours have run on the Heart Of Wales with far more than 4 coaches; I have photos of 68016 and 68024 top & tail on the Northern Belle with at least 7 coaches through Llandovery for example.
Armchair Bob
Member
A four-car 153 (AT+3+9) was used on both 21st and 22nd July this year for the show.