Numerous Speed Restrictions / Delays Due to Defective Track on Southern Region

Class73Electro · 1 Sep 2026

Seems that since the Lewes incident, there have been a lot of speed restrictions all over the network, with numerous train delays due to "defective rail"! Last Friday (28th July) The Arun Valley Line was essentially out of action, as was (If I remember rightly) the Uckfield Line? A couple of trains I have been on now they have told us over the announcement that we have to go slow due to the track!

Is this limited to the Southern Region? Has the heat messed up so much track?

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RailwayRookie · 1 Sep 2026

Class73Electro said:
Is this limited to the Southern Region? Has the heat messed up so much track?

This isnt limited to Southern, the number of rough ride reports has increased everywhere with drivers being more cautious since both Lewes and Wickford.

The heat, dryness and subsequent sudden wet spells have definitely had an impact on the durability of the track, as well as introducing new sites that may not have been as closely monitored before.

The trouble with the 'Rough Ride', is that once its reported, you cant just run a train over it to check and then go back to line speed. A competent person has to come and inspect the track. Until then all movements over it are at 20mph (in most cases).

The two ugly sides of the coin are the train service and the track inspections themselves.

The temporary 20mph imposed while waiting for a competent person then has the associated slowing down before reaching the affected area, and getting back to line speed afterwards, both adding time. Not to mention the signaller having to stop and caution each train over the section, including getting the first train after the initial report to make contact and share their findings in order to eliminate the job stoppers (broken rails, missing pairs of fishcakes etc).

The other side is that there is only a finite amount of P-Way personnel at any given time to go and inspect the track, so the more reports, the more they are doing. Some of these teams cover a huge area and most of the time they need to stop train running to carry out an initial inspection.

Once they have inspected the site they will normally impose a higher speed and work gradually up until a speed that is sensible if not line speed.

edwin_m · 1 Sep 2026

RailwayRookie said:
missing pairs of fishcakes

The mind boggles.

D6130 · 1 Sep 2026

edwin_m said:
The mind boggles.

A tasty autocorrect, I assume!

Toby3875 · 1 Sep 2026

There are speed restrictions just north of Sevenoaks on southeastern and thameslink

Nicholas Lewis · 1 Sep 2026

RailwayRookie said:
This isnt limited to Southern, the number of rough ride reports has increased everywhere with drivers being more cautious since both Lewes and Wickford.

Theres been an epidemic on Sussex though which of course is highly understandable given the Lewes incident but other than West of England its not as bad on Kent or Wessex.

RailwayRookie said:
The heat, dryness and subsequent sudden wet spells have definitely had an impact on the durability of the track, as well as introducing new sites that may not have been as closely monitored before.

Yes but that hasnt just happened so going to be interesting to see what RAIB uncover over whether drivers weren't reporting rough rides or if they how they were being managed.

RailwayRookie said:
The trouble with the 'Rough Ride', is that once its reported, you cant just run a train over it to check and then go back to line speed. A competent person has to come and inspect the track. Until then all movements over it are at 20mph (in most cases).

Indeed and the level of day P.Way resource has been substantially scaled back since Red Zone Working was banned

RailwayRookie said:
The two ugly sides of the coin are the train service and the track inspections themselves.

The temporary 20mph imposed while waiting for a competent person then has the associated slowing down before reaching the affected area, and getting back to line speed afterwards, both adding time. Not to mention the signaller having to stop and caution each train over the section, including getting the first train after the initial report to make contact and share their findings in order to eliminate the job stoppers (broken rails, missing pairs of fishcakes etc).

Not forgetting line blocks needed to get on site which become a nightmare if the report is on an inner track in multi track section

RailwayRookie said:
The other side is that there is only a finite amount of P-Way personnel at any given time to go and inspect the track, so the more reports, the more they are doing. Some of these teams cover a huge area and most of the time they need to stop train running to carry out an initial inspection.

Once they have inspected the site they will normally impose a higher speed and work gradually up until a speed that is sensible if not line speed.

SECR 65 · 1 Sep 2026

I'm slightly struggling to understand the reasoning behind the reduced timetable on the Uckfield Line.

For those who aren't aware, the Uckfield Line is effectively a branch which is mostly single track but has loops to allow for up to about 2tph. Only 1tph is usually operated, with three self contained sets of units. Every 3rd train is canned at Crowborough and restarts from there. I have to assume that by the time two trains have been run through to Uckfield, due to some form of speed restriction, so much time will have been lost that there must be a gap in the service to restore on-time running?

Nicholas Lewis · 1 Sep 2026

SECR 65 said:
I'm slightly struggling to understand the reasoning behind the reduced timetable on the Uckfield Line.

For those who aren't aware, the Uckfield Line is effectively a branch which is mostly single track but has loops to allow for up to about 2tph. Only 1tph is usually operated, with three self contained sets of units. Every 3rd train is canned at Crowborough and restarts from there. I have to assume that by the time two trains have been run through to Uckfield, due to some form of speed restriction, so much time will have been lost that there must be a gap in the service to restore on-time running?

They have a tight turnaround at Uckfield and then they only run just ahead of the E.Grinsteads from Hurst Green so it causing a lot of late running even with the revisions. So i guess spinning one at Crowborough allows some recovery.

There are two tampers scheduled in tonight and one for the following three nights so they are trying to get on top of it. However they also need resources for the Arun Valley as well and they maybe pulling them off other sites as well potentially storing up problems in other locations. Hopefully we wont have to wait for the RAIB reports before there is a policy change over reduced maintenance and renewals.

Bald Rick · 1 Sep 2026

Class73Electro said:
Is this limited to the Southern Region? Has the heat messed up so much track?

Not limited to Southern, and it’s not the heat specifically. It’s the drought.

It is all related to ‘Soil Moisture Deficit’ (SMD). This has been increasing through the summer (as usual), but the dry spring meant it was starting at a higher level, and then long spell without rain meant it kept rising rather than fluctuating as it normally does whne there is some rain. When the SMD reaches a certain level - and that level varies by location - it will cause the fomation (what is under the track) to lose stability and/or it’s ability to support the track in full, and move.

The fact that there are lots of speed restrictions on at the same time is partly due to drivers being a little more sensitive, partly because Track Engineers have had so many reports that some precautionary speed restrictions are on (it being less disruptive to have a planned speed on than to have to stop and caution trains in an unplanned manner), but mostly because the locations concerned reach their critical SMD level in broadly the same timeframe.

Nicholas Lewis said:
Yes but that hasnt just happened so going to be interesting to see what RAIB uncover over whether drivers weren't reporting rough rides or if they how they were being managed.

As above, to a certain extent it has ‘just happened’, ie the sites concerned have reached their tipping point so to speak at roughly the same time.

Nicholas Lewis said:
Indeed and the level of day P.Way resource has been substantially scaled back since Red Zone Working was banned

The opposite, AIUI. I’m aware of several places where Pway resorces have been increased specifically becasue Red Zone workign has been banned, ie to enable the work that needs to be done in the more limited times overnight etc. What has been scaled back is the ability of the resource to work on the track betwen trains to restore geometry defects, and where there is an intensive service it is more likely to be left until close of service to fix.

SECR 65 · 1 Sep 2026

Nicholas Lewis said:
They have a tight turnaround at Uckfield and then they only run just ahead of the E.Grinsteads from Hurst Green so it causing a lot of late running even with the revisions. So i guess spinning one at Crowborough allows some recovery.

There are two tampers scheduled in tonight and one for the following three nights so they are trying to get on top of it. However they also need resources for the Arun Valley as well and they maybe pulling them off other sites as well potentially storing up problems in other locations. Hopefully we wont have to wait for the RAIB reports before there is a policy change over reduced maintenance and renewals.

That's understandable, thank you.

A family member is using the line tomorrow so I'll ask if there are any speed restrictions and where.

Nicholas Lewis · 1 Sep 2026

Bald Rick said:
Not limited to Southern, and it’s not the heat specifically. It’s the drought.

It is all related to ‘Soil Moisture Deficit’ (SMD). This has been increasing through the summer (as usual), but the dry spring meant it was starting at a higher level, and then long spell without rain meant it kept rising rather than fluctuating as it normally does whne there is some rain. When the SMD reaches a certain level - and that level varies by location - it will cause the fomation (what is under the track) to lose stability and/or it’s ability to support the track in full, and move.

The fact that there are lots of speed restrictions on at the same time is partly due to drivers being a little more sensitive, partly because Track Engineers have had so many reports that some precautionary speed restrictions are on (it being less disruptive to have a planned speed on than to have to stop and caution trains in an unplanned manner), but mostly because the locations concerned reach their critical SMD level in broadly the same timeframe.

Is it easily remediated by just dropping ballast and tamping though or is there a risk as moisture finds its way into the embankments they will expand again?

Bald Rick said:
As above, to a certain extent it has ‘just happened’, ie the sites concerned have reached their tipping point so to speak at roughly the same time.

Umm the Arun Valley has always been lively down the South end for years so I guess drivers become used to a certain level of poor riding. Also I dont believe any Southern trains are equipped with simple track monitoring thats available on some other routes to give early warning of potential L2 defects developing before they become rough rides.

Bald Rick said:
The opposite, AIUI. I’m aware of several places where Pway resorces have been increased specifically becasue Red Zone workign has been banned, ie to enable the work that needs to be done in the more limited times overnight etc. What has been scaled back is the ability of the resource to work on the track betwen trains to restore geometry defects, and where there is an intensive service it is more likely to be left until close of service to fix.

Good to hear and I should have clarified that the level of "day" resources has been reduced in favour of night rostering.

Bald Rick · 1 Sep 2026

Nicholas Lewis said:
Is it easily remediated by just dropping ballast and tamping though or is there a risk as moisture finds its way into the embankments they will expand again?

Essentially yes, but some sites will move again when they get properly wet, ie after a lot, lot more rain than we have had recently.

The quantities of ballast dropped on some of these sites is quite something, though. I’m no track engineer (well not officially) but I do wonder if there comes a point after many years of this where the ballast starts sinking into the clay / fen and stiffens it up.

London Trains · 3 Sep 2026

Nicholas Lewis said:
They have a tight turnaround at Uckfield and then they only run just ahead of the E.Grinsteads from Hurst Green so it causing a lot of late running even with the revisions. So i guess spinning one at Crowborough allows some recovery.

To add to this, they're also stepping back all of the Uckfield Line services at London Bridge, giving them around 75 minutes of turnaround time and ensuring the down services are always on time.

And for the least surprising news ever, they've canned the Coastway peak extras from London Bridge again...

izvor · 3 Sep 2026

To add to the list, there's a 20mph on the down line near Staplehurst (mercifully short) and a longer 20mph on the up line near Godstone which is playing havoc with the TON-RDH shuttles in the peaks.

devon_belle · 4 Sep 2026

I commute enough to know where the big lurches are, and I have noticed a few new ones on my line (Horsham-Dorking). Drivers seem to be going slower on certain stretches, but there's no TSR signage that I can see on the track. Perhaps there is an internal memo or they just don't want to alarm passengers, as there are some seriously bad ones if you're sat at the end of the carriage. Fortunately the timetable isn't intensive, and there is a lot of slack in the Up direction which can absorb slow running.

There have also been some track quality issues on the fast lines between Streatham Common and Victoria (in various isolated locations, judging by the TSRs) which must be accumulating a lot of minutes of delay.

Long term I don't know how the Sussex region will cope, as the problem really goes back to the LBSCR who built the lines so poorly.

Chrisgr31 · 4 Sep 2026

London Trains said:
To add to this, they're also stepping back all of the Uckfield Line services at London Bridge, giving them around 75 minutes of turnaround time and ensuring the down services are always on time.

which is all well and good but it then means that the don’t have enough carriages to run the full peak hours service.

They have said that the 7.33 ex Uckfield will run with extra carriages to makeup for the loss of the 7.03. That’s all well and good except a lot of passengers on the 7.03 have actually changed to the 6.33 as otherwise they’d be late for work.

The 6.33 is meant to be 8 carriages but on Tuesday and Wednesday was 5 and today and yesterday was 3!

The outcome is a huge amount of complaints from passengers about overcrowding. There are similar issues for the evening peak as well where the 8 carriage trains appear to have been reduced to 5.

Nicholas Lewis · 4 Sep 2026

izvor said:
To add to the list, there's a 20mph on the down line near Staplehurst (mercifully short) and a longer 20mph on the up line near Godstone which is playing havoc with the TON-RDH shuttles in the peaks.

Tonbridge Redhill shut all morning until 1300 due to track defects. Went over it yesterday and Godstone-Edenbridge on the Down was 50mph and that was pretty lively and my guesstimate was driver new where the more severe sections were as was regulating speed. This section has a lot of embankments.

notadriver · 4 Sep 2026

Would it be also be prudent to have a blanket speed limit of 40 mph on the SR until the problem is addressed?

devon_belle · 4 Sep 2026

notadriver said:
Would it be also be prudent to have a blanket speed limit of 40 mph on the SR until the problem is addressed?

They seem to know where the issues are. Why cause even more disruption than necessary?

Nicholas Lewis · 4 Sep 2026

devon_belle said:
They seem to know where the issues are. Why cause even more disruption than necessary?

Indeed a speed that low would decimate the timetable. Whats needed is access and resources to treat the affected areas and generally the UK does have plenty of decent tamping machinery that can deliver several 1000yds on an overnight possession if the site is suitable prepped. To a degree much of this is a temporary fix and the problem will just reemerge next time we have a prolonged dry spell. The other issues is loading embankments with ever more stone creates other issues so with climate change its just going to have to be managed as replacement embankment fill isn't practical.

izvor · 4 Sep 2026

Nicholas Lewis said:
Tonbridge Redhill shut all morning until 1300 due to track defects. Went over it yesterday and Godstone-Edenbridge on the Down was 50mph and that was pretty lively and my guesstimate was driver new where the more severe sections were as was regulating speed. This section has a lot of embankments.

There's already been 2 major works on Godstone - Edenbridge in recent years, reinforcing or rebuilding the embankments. No doubt there will be more when (if) the rains start. Dodgy old earthworks on Wealden clay is not a good mix.

However today's issue was allegedly at Nutfield, which is beyond the current TSRs.

6PAN · 4 Sep 2026

There have been problems on the line east of Lewes for many years. The low embankment between the Cuckmere river and Wilmington LC had a TSR in the mid 1970s with multiple attempts at fixing it with ballast before a more permanent repair was effected.

London Trains · 5 Sep 2026

Chrisgr31 said:
which is all well and good but it then means that the don’t have enough carriages to run the full peak hours service.

They have said that the 7.33 ex Uckfield will run with extra carriages to makeup for the loss of the 7.03. That’s all well and good except a lot of passengers on the 7.03 have actually changed to the 6.33 as otherwise they’d be late for work.

The 6.33 is meant to be 8 carriages but on Tuesday and Wednesday was 5 and today and yesterday was 3!

The outcome is a huge amount of complaints from passengers about overcrowding. There are similar issues for the evening peak as well where the 8 carriage trains appear to have been reduced to 5.

I agree, I think the way they've handled everything is quite poor. In particular, there is no reason why the stepping back arrangement should even be affecting train lengths in the morning peak, as the units won't yet have been displaced from their normal diagrams.

Its not relevant to this thread, but the line using 3 coach trains off peak is quite poor in itself.

Snow1964 · 5 Sep 2026

devon_belle said:
Long term I don't know how the Sussex region will cope, as the problem really goes back to the LBSCR who built the lines so poorly.

There aren't really any hard rocks in South East or Central Southern England, so both LBSCR and South Eastern Railway often used ash mixture as lower ballast.

It was only in Southern Railway days that more suitable material (generally from Meldon Quarry, Dartmoor) became common.

Cannot just keep tipping ballast as track level would go up and eventually trains hit bridges, signals etc or platforms become too low etc.

There are only two ways to make long term repair, lift track, dig out ballast, dig out foundation layer to deeper depth, replace the old ballast in deeper hole as foundation (often with geo textile mats), replace track and new clean ballast on top. Time consuming and need to take away the lower clay/mud rubbish that is dug out.

The alternative is undercutting, a derivative of mining equipment, dig a hole at side and insert what looks like a horizontal chain bucket cutter, this then cuts and lifts out via conveyor at side, effectively get a slice out of the foundations so everything then drops into new hole, can then drop new ballast, lift track and tamp and align. Once started this is easy to do longer sections, but problem is can't use the machine where cables, drains or underbridge structures exist.

Some people get confused because they think the problem starts with the track or ballast, but Soil Moisture Deficit affects what is below the ballast, and if that moves around (heaves) then ballast and track above can also move. So only solution is to have deeper ballast (where stones interlock), or to cast a slab on something secure like piles

rmHawk765 · 5 Sep 2026

My local line is on 25kV land (operated by GTR as well), is currently littered with TSRs, and has not had any sort of temporary timetable put in so it's borderline impossible for trains to stay on time. Tomorrow there are no morning services for planned engineering so hopefully some fixes will be made.

Nicholas Lewis · 5 Sep 2026

Snow1964 said:
There aren't really any hard rocks in South East or Central Southern England, so both LBSCR and South Eastern Railway often used ash mixture as lower ballast.

It was only in Southern Railway days that more suitable material (generally from Meldon Quarry, Dartmoor) became common.

Cannot just keep tipping ballast as track level would go up and eventually trains hit bridges, signals etc or platforms become too low etc.

You cant keep loading ballast onto embankments as its placing extra load on the formation and also with narrow width of Victorian embankments maintain a ballast shoulder becomes troublesome. At Lewes you can see the result of increasing track ballast height with some rather crude ballast retention arrangements off the bridge abutment.

Snow1964 said:
There are only two ways to make long term repair, lift track, dig out ballast, dig out foundation layer to deeper depth, replace the old ballast in deeper hole as foundation (often with geo textile mats), replace track and new clean ballast on top. Time consuming and need to take away the lower clay/mud rubbish that is dug out.

The alternative is undercutting, a derivative of mining equipment, dig a hole at side and insert what looks like a horizontal chain bucket cutter, this then cuts and lifts out via conveyor at side, effectively get a slice out of the foundations so everything then drops into new hole, can then drop new ballast, lift track and tamp and align. Once started this is easy to do longer sections, but problem is can't use the machine where cables, drains or underbridge structures exist.

The high output ballast cleaning machines are absolutely ideal for track lowering but NR has mothballed them. They never got much use in Southern area as the level of cable disconnection is several times higher than even AC electrified areas due to the positive and negative cabling and impednace bonds. That said its still the best machine for track lowering.

SECR 65 · 7 Sep 2026

Looking at schedules of trains throughout today, there is clearly a 'significant' TSR somewhere between Polegate and Southerham Junction - 1F and 1U/2U trains in both directions seem to be losing between 2 and 8 minutes of time in that section of line. Does anyone have any details?

Expression357 · 7 Sep 2026

SECR 65 said:
Looking at schedules of trains throughout today, there is clearly a 'significant' TSR somewhere between Polegate and Southerham Junction - 1F and 1U/2U trains in both directions seem to be losing between 2 and 8 minutes of time in that section of line. Does anyone have any details?

A blanket 50mph from Southerham Junction to Willingdon Junction - quite aside from a couple of sites boarded as ESR 20mph in the Polegate area.

Jim · 7 Sep 2026

Expression357 said:
A blanket 50mph from Southerham Junction to Willingdon Junction - quite aside from a couple of sites boarded as ESR 20mph in the Polegate area.

On the down there is a short 20 between Polegate and Willingdon Jn

On the Up there is a short one just after Polegate station and also a mile ish long one between Berwick and Glynde, so it seems from my observations this week.

SECR 65 · 7 Sep 2026

Thanks both.

I don't really get to see what happens on that section of the line. I just stand on the platform at Lewes staring at the signalling diagram wondering why the train to Brighton is taking forever and why it's always late.... and wishing I'd got one that came from Seaford!

Numerous Speed Restrictions / Delays Due to Defective Track on Southern Region

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