My experience on continental trains is that ticket checks are much more frequent and happen on many more journeys than they do here. This provides a disincentive to fare evasion on longer journeys. On metros, buses and trams your chance of getting caught is much less so fare evasion is probably higher.
Yeah it's quite refreshing when we can talk openly about this, the underpinning classism, racism and other forms of bigotry which do exist in our society is what concerns me so much with such a subjective, 'consent based' ticket inspecting process. It has been the single most well known issue in the police force, treating people as more suspicious based on charactersitics they cannot change. And at least because it is known, there are checks to make sure minority groups are not unfairly stopped, questioned, harrassed etc (not that that stops it completely).
I guess an easy way to test this would be to compare fare evasion on the cheapest line, with fare evasion on the most expensive.
An MG11 is a witness statement, not a TIR.
I dont think this subjectivity should be allowed to be honest, are there clear guidelines on how guards know how to determine between suspected misuse and genuine ticket mistakes? I would really like to read it.
It's just not factually true. My ticket was for beyond the station the train was pulling it to, I had to change and get further trains which I wasnt able to do because he took my ticket. So please, please do not make assumptions about me when I have spent the entire morning writing about how I find it morally dangerous that ticket inspectors do this.
and this really just proves my entire point. Alterego you have just made a completely baseless assumption of why I was upset my ticket was taken from me and I cannot express how much I do not appreciate that. It is genuinely exhausting to be treated like this, and this is why I will not pay a single cent to the train companies again.
How would anyone reading this thread know that? And your previous thread appears to be hidden so there is no way for anyone to refer to that either.
You can't actually be penalty fared in your situation because you presented a ticket which was valid absent any other evidence. A TIR is the correct form of action; this can be done for all sorts of reasons and it not necessarily an allegation or assumption of guilt. A TIR basically means they get to withdraw the ticket to inspect it further and if there is any other investigation to be done like auditing other purchases they will do this. A TIR can also be issued when a retailer has improperly issued or printed a ticket for example.
There may well be unconscious bias at play of course, but this is really moving away from your original query.
No.
I don't believe I have made any such assertion. It's more what you have chosen to read into my comments.
Well, this is a public forum so you don't get to make that choice. If you have concerns about my posts there is a process for reporting them for moderators to investigate but I am confident that I have not posted anything that might be considered out of order.
Of course not, but I do get to chose to use my words to kindly and respectfully ask that you don't.
I dont have cause to report you, that would be completely unnecessary.
Unfortunately that is one of the messy elements of human nature. As is interpreting other peoples’ motives.
I just really dont think criminal records and the likes should be as messy as this. I really think the gov needs to look into standardising it across the country, if its strict liability, it should be strict liabilty. No room for subjectivity and bias.
You aren't exactly helping yourself with your constant evasion of the core questions identified quite early on by experienced forum members. If you want help then you need to tell people exactly what your circumstances are and answer any queries people have which are crucial to your case. I'm not sure what you expect people to say when you deliberately skirt around crucial questions over behaviours known to be common with that of a typical fare evader and then spend the last few hours talking about broad policy issues which aren't going to be directly helping your case. Most experienced forum members have no connection to the operators and have no personal agenda against you. Most are equally appalled at some of the behaviours from various operators, and are only trying to eliminate possibilities which would be detrimental to your case as you have given no clarification so far. Until you help them understand your situation in full no one will be able to offer you useful advice. If instead of asking for help, all you need is to have a rant and let off steam, that is OK too, just make it clear so people don't have to second-guess your intention.
I'm only on about the outbound ticket which the train company's staff suspected was going to be used on the return later that day, and indeed the ticket was withdrawn basically for the purpose of auditing any previous purchases so previous losses could be analysed. That is what happened and that is why you are where you are now.
This is not likely to be a criminal matter, but a civil one, as I keep repeating.
All criminal records are subject to the vagaries of human bias - even murder. At that extremity far more checks and balances are in place, but as countless examples show, even they are not foolproof.
I dont need you to know all the context, I just asked a simple question about the legality if travelling on a return portion and people remembered me and started nitpicking again. Someone else advised not to post details publicly so I also do not want the paranoia of thinking the guy who took my tickets is reading everything I say.
Im well aware of the criminal system, undeniably the TOCs are operating in grey areas without oversight or even legal training though. I still think it should be standardised.
Yeah that wasn't a helpful post from that member. There have basically never been negative consequences from anyone posting full and frank details here, and the inspector isn't the one who decides any action here. It's people in the back office.
This is not true, there are situations when the return fare costs the same as a single.
Enjoy your pierogi!
thanks this was really helpful.
Depends if it's a paper ticket or an eticket due to the limitations of what can be encoded; did you not get any errors or rejections at all and were you permitted to board without hindrance?
yes the barrier accepted my ticket no problem, no hindrance.
Were you using a paper ticket or an eticket? And no error codes like "return already used" or "not valid at this time"? That seems like a big issue with the gates at Waterloo to be honest if they are permitting travel with what is supposed to be an invalid ticket.
