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OxRail 2040 - plan from Oxfordshire County Council

jimm

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Interesting points being made! The formation between Radley (north of the overbridge at the station) and Hinksey North was indeed once quadruple track, although not for long; 4-tracked during WW2 but mostly back to 2, certainly before 1971 when my Oxford area trainspotting started.

I question how beneficial 'goods services would be got out of the way of passenger services' would actually be; The days of 25mph unfitted freights, and 55mph MGR coal trains, have gone, the majority now being 75 mph freightliners. Would being shunted to the Relief line between Radley North and Wolvercote Junction while an express or two overtook really be worth the huge expense? Although improvements certainly could be made, and in some cases are, ie Platform 5 at Oxford.
You need to stop thinking about 'relief' lines. Current operating practice between Oxford and Wolvercote is that container trains use the central pair of tracks as much as possible and are held there while passenger services run past them on the outer tracks.

You keep going on about 'huge expense'. I repeat, we are not talking about starting with a blank canvas. The land needed is already within the Network Rail boundary all the way to Radley (and beyond on the west side of the line to the former Abingdon Junction). The basic track formation remains in place, though obviously in need of some tlc here and there but reinstating the fourth track from Oxford to Wolvercote was a fairly straightforward process, so why should it be any different heading in the other direction?

The capacity issues between the Didcot and Oxford areas go back a long way. A grade-separated junction at Didcot East would be nice but very expensive indeed, while providing more track for as much of the distance to Oxford as possible is a much more straightforward exercise. Just sticking a loop in somewhere along the way, with the inevitable speed/time penalty to trains while getting in and out of it, could actually make matters worse.

Keeping a container train rolling while passenger trains get past it, with it then following in their wake, is a rather more practical way to operate. If quadruple track extended to Radley (which would admittedly require an expensive require an extra bit of bridge over the Thames between Oxford station and Hinksey) then you get an eight-mile stretch to do that in, rather than the three miles from the station's south end to Wolvercote.
 
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Falcon1200

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You keep going on about 'huge expense'. I repeat, we are not talking about starting with a blank canvas.

In which case, please provide an estimate for the cost of the structural, trackwork and signalling alterations required and we can then discuss whether the expense is huge or not! I remain dubious about the benefits the expense would provide, considering that we are talking about 75mph freights being regulated for 100mph, if that, passenger trains. As you say there is already the infrastructure available to hold freights, in either direction, between Oxford and Wolvercote Jc.

If quadruple track extended to Radley (which would admittedly require an expensive require an extra bit of bridge over the Thames between Oxford station and Hinksey) then you get an eight-mile stretch to do that in, rather than the three miles from the station's south end to Wolvercote.

So, would the new outside lines become the passenger lines, from Radley North (assuming the overbridge at Radley is not rebuilt) to Wolvercote Jc? Otherwise there would be additional conflict between freight and passenger. And of course, the passenger train overtaking the freight in that eight-mile stretch will invariably stop at Oxford, surely hugely reducing, if not nullifying altogether, the benefit?
 

The exile

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You need to stop thinking about 'relief' lines. Current operating practice between Oxford and Wolvercote is that container trains use the central pair of tracks as much as possible and are held there while passenger services run past them on the outer tracks.
Doesn’t stop them being “relief lines” though even if the layout of main and relief is not the conventional one.
 

AlastairFraser

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So, would the new outside lines become the passenger lines, from Radley North (assuming the overbridge at Radley is not rebuilt) to Wolvercote Jc? Otherwise there would be additional conflict between freight and passenger. And of course, the passenger train overtaking the freight in that eight-mile stretch will invariably stop at Oxford, surely hugely reducing, if not nullifying altogether, the benefit?
All lines can be dual use, but paired as relief/mains, as they are on the GWML
 

Mag_seven

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Oxfordshire County Council have published a consultation on what they've called "OxRAIL 2040: Plan for Rail" which can be found here: https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk...523454&goal=0_206c6fb447-6187f9f7e2-408523454

There's quite a lot in there, and I assume this is a wish list for the next 15 years that they will then need to find funding for. Some of this will come from some sizeable housing developments in the area. Some highlights including:
  • Cowley branch line plus new stations at Wantage & Grove, Begbroke and Ardley. Ardley isn't one I've seen before and is slated for post-2038 'if possible', linked to the plan for 9000 new houses on the old Heyford airfield site.
  • Increased frequency on a 'Science line' Didcot - Oxford - Banbury with 4-tracking Radley-Oxford.
  • North Cotswold line upgrades, reinstating a second track between Hanborough and Wolvercote.
  • Development of the Electric Freight Spine and electrification from Didcot to Bletchley
With much else also included. What do people think - realistic vision or pie in the sky?

Consultation launched on Wednesday and closes on 1st October.

Thread reopened for an update from @Snow1964
 

Snow1964

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BBC are reporting possible 2 new stations and large rail connected distribution depot. The planning application examination is this month

A village that was last served by trains in the 1960s could be in line for two new stations.

According to Oxfordshire County Council, an early report suggests a passenger station at Ardley would benefit the growing community.

It comes at the same time a rail freight interchange is being planned close to the village, off junction 10 of the M40, that includes a terminal to transfer goods from lorries on to trains, as well as 6.5 million sq ft of logistics warehousing.

Oxfordshire Railfreight Limited, the organisation behind the freight hub, said the scheme would "help reduce congestion, carbon emissions and pressure on the strategic road network" but locals fear it could lead to traffic problems.

The passenger service and freight interchange are separate projects and on very different timetables.
The Oxfordshire Strategic Rail Freight Interchange (OxSRFI) is considered a nationally significant infrastructure project and is being considered directly by the Planning Inspectorate, rather than the local council.

The initial application was accepted in April, with the examination part of the process due to start this month.

Described by the applicant as "a large multi-purpose freight interchange and distribution centre" the hub is designed to link the rail and road networks.

There are also plans to make "very significant improvements" to junction 10 of the M40, as well as the surrounding road network, to alleviate existing congestion as well as accommodating new traffic from the rail freight hub and other developments planned for the area.
 

The Planner

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Ardley has been on the cards and being developed for a number of years, this isn't really anything new. The issue will be what gauge can be sorted for the Chilterns or you are in for some very inefficient messing about with Intermodals. If you read SABRE, the "significant improvements" to J10 are doing some very heavy lifting too.
 

Palmerston

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Ardley has been on the cards and being developed for a number of years, this isn't really anything new. The issue will be what gauge can be sorted for the Chilterns or you are in for some very inefficient messing about with Intermodals. If you read SABRE, the "significant improvements" to J10 are doing some very heavy lifting too.
J10 and J9 could both do with some improvement. Though I might be getting a bit off topic
 
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The cynic in me wonders how much *rail* freight this supposed railfreight interchange will actually see.

There are lots of developers trying to build warehouses on greenfield sites along this part of the M40 corridor, and offering a rail connection is a good way of demonstrating 'sustainability' that might tip the planning balance in their favour, even if the proposed rail freight never materialises. This part of the Chiltern route is already creaking at the seams with the existing services.
 

AlastairFraser

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BBC are reporting possible 2 new stations and large rail connected distribution depot. The planning application examination is this month



Interesting.
Building a parkway on the site of the old station would be very well located for the M40.
The proximity to the A43 would be good for a rail shuttle bus to both Brackley/Silverstone and the new Heyford Park development too.
However, I also hope consideration is given to providing a dedicated walking/cycling route from Heyford Park to the new station, maybe as a part of Section 106/Community Infrastructure Levy funding from a further expansion phase.
 

fishwomp

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The cynic in me wonders how much *rail* freight this supposed railfreight interchange will actually see.

There are lots of developers trying to build warehouses on greenfield sites along this part of the M40 corridor, and offering a rail connection is a good way of demonstrating 'sustainability' that might tip the planning balance in their favour, even if the proposed rail freight never materialises. This part of the Chiltern route is already creaking at the seams with the existing services.
I think the same.

This is a terminal that is in the wrong place for the railway, and the right place for the road network.

* off the mainline from Southampton (ie. Oxford-Banbury) - no easy route except via London from Southampton
* off the route from Felixstowe and off the potential route via Milton Keynes when Cambridge is joined up

compared to:

* exactly positioned where M40 meets A43/A34 - Southampton to Daventry and Midlands;
* 15 miles from M1, 35 miles from M42 Brum ring.

there's no way a rail journey time could be comparable to road from Southampton for that location - and at 75 miles, it's way less than the rail sweetspot if there were a good route.

there's no industry at Ardley to generate any rail use either. Open fields.
 

MarkyT

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I think the same.

This is a terminal that is in the wrong place for the railway, and the right place for the road network.

* off the mainline from Southampton (ie. Oxford-Banbury) - no easy route except via London from Southampton
I assume the logistics hub would be located on part of the old airfield site. In which case, the rail terminal could be connected to the Oxford-Banbury line near the west end of the complex rather than to the Chiltern line at its east end. It's just under a mile from the west end of the old runway to the established trunk freight route.
* off the route from Felixstowe and off the potential route via Milton Keynes when Cambridge is joined up
Perhaps Hinksey Yard near Oxford might be developed as a run-round and portion exchange location for intermodal trains on east-west and south-north axes.
 
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BrianW

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I assume the logistics hub would be located on part of the old airfield site. In which case, the rail terminal could be connected to the Oxford-Banbury line near the west end of the complex rather than to the Chiltern line at its east end. It's just under a mile from the west end of the old runway to the established trunk freight route.

Perhaps Hinksey Yard near Oxford might be developed as a portion exchange location for intermodal trains on east-west and south-north axes.

The application is at: https://oxsrfi.co.uk/the-proposal/

It shows extensive 'warehouse' buildings and a relatively small railfreight/ intermodal/ exchange arrangement alongside the Chiltern Line, southwest of the Heyford airfield and of the grade separated rail junction at Aynho with the trunk Southampton- Oxford- Banbury- Birmingham line.

It would surely not be beyond the whit of man to see a possible 'Southern chord' to a triangular junction with south-facing leads at both ends; or a west- north chord in the vicinity of Bicester Village - Bicester North, although with a lot more urban development to contend with for that one.

The scheme is considered national infrastructure important to the economy and the application is being considered as such.

Where there's way ... there is a lot of 'well-connected' North Oxfordshire opposition of course.

Ardley has a large Waste Incinerator, with related truck journeys and the M40 has attracted a lot of 'distribution depots'. Bicester and Heyford are already extensive residential developments. Canute could not hold back the tide.
 

fishwomp

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I assume the logistics hub would be located on part of the old airfield site. In which case, the rail terminal could be connected to the Oxford-Banbury line near the west end of the complex rather than to the Chiltern line at its east end. It's just under a mile from the west end of the old runway to the established trunk freight route.
There's a heck of an altitude difference - the airfield is 130m above sea level, the railway is about 75m. 55m difference - which even at 1 in 75 would take over 4km to gain ..! So, nope!
 

67018

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The cynic in me wonders how much *rail* freight this supposed railfreight interchange will actually see.

There are lots of developers trying to build warehouses on greenfield sites along this part of the M40 corridor, and offering a rail connection is a good way of demonstrating 'sustainability' that might tip the planning balance in their favour, even if the proposed rail freight never materialises. This part of the Chiltern route is already creaking at the seams with the existing services.
I'm not sure that this part of the route could be described as 'creaking' when it usually sees no more than 4 trains per hour. North of Aynho Junction might be busier but freight manages to go up that way from Oxford so presumably not impossible to resolve.

It's been talked about for years, about time they got on with it especially if it goes some way to resolve some of the issues with the road network. M40 J9 and 10 jam up every day causing the B430 to be used as a bypass. Providing a station handy for Heyford Park would also be a big win, and a lot more convenient than the tiny Heyford station which is down a big hill and only gets a train every 2 hours.
 

The Planner

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I'm not sure that this part of the route could be described as 'creaking' when it usually sees no more than 4 trains per hour. North of Aynho Junction might be busier but freight manages to go up that way from Oxford so presumably not impossible to resolve.

It's been talked about for years, about time they got on with it especially if it goes some way to resolve some of the issues with the road network. M40 J9 and 10 jam up every day causing the B430 to be used as a bypass. Providing a station handy for Heyford Park would also be a big win, and a lot more convenient than the tiny Heyford station which is down a big hill and only gets a train every 2 hours.
Bicester to Aynho is sparsely signalled with 2 aspect, its effectively just two signal sections between just north of Bicester to Aynho. One from Bicester to Ardley tunnel, then one from there to Aynho Jn.
 

Merle Haggard

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The cynic in me wonders how much *rail* freight this supposed railfreight interchange will actually see.

There are lots of developers trying to build warehouses on greenfield sites along this part of the M40 corridor, and offering a rail connection is a good way of demonstrating 'sustainability' that might tip the planning balance in their favour, even if the proposed rail freight never materialises. This part of the Chiltern route is already creaking at the seams with the existing services.

I have had sort-of first hand experience and I can say that a planning application for a 'Warehouse with rail access' on a green field site is very likely to succeed - because it counts as 'National Infrastructure' and is difficult to deny (it seems that local planners aren't involved) - whereas as an application for 'Warehouse for road haulage' on a similar site may well be declined on valid grounds. The process seems to be that once the road-based development application is denied ingenuity is used to provide rail access.

The "National Infrastructure' designation also means that the developers can use compulsory purchase to obtain the land that they want. Compulsory Purchase gives a landowner compensation based on the land value. It may well be impossible to buy a replacement similar site with that compensation, even if one can be found, and it certainly doesn't include the cost of moving.

Once the depot is built, there is no requirement for the rail access to be used as far as I can see.
 

Zomboid

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The money that they'd spend on the rail connection would be better used improving the M40 junction, which is a bit of a mess.
 

Merle Haggard

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The money that they'd spend on the rail connection would be better used improving the M40 junction, which is a bit of a mess.

When the Northampton Gateway terminal was built (rail served, but on the A508 adjacent to J15 M1) the developers had to pay for a massive improvement of J15. In the opposite direction on the A508 they also paid for a by-pass around the first village West.

I'm not sure how this concession was extracted from the developers, though - but the cost must have been considerable and the work had to be fully completed before the warehouse could be used.
 

Palmerston

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The official proposal refers to rail access from Liverpool, Felixstowe and London Gateway. That sounds optimistic if the only link is to the Chiltern line. Liverpool, yes, but what's the route from the other two?
 

The Planner

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The official proposal refers to rail access from Liverpool, Felixstowe and London Gateway. That sounds optimistic if the only link is to the Chiltern line. Liverpool, yes, but what's the route from the other two?
WCML or XC to Nuneaton, Water Orton, Landor St, Tyseley and down to Banbury.
 

Zomboid

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I though that the southern WCML was 'full'.
Isn't the deal with freight paths that they're always on there but don't always run, and can have several origin/ destinations for a given path? So on a given day the 1100 from Wembley could go to Mossend, Garston or Ardley?
 

Merle Haggard

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Isn't the deal with freight paths that they're always on there but don't always run, and can have several origin/ destinations for a given path? So on a given day the 1100 from Wembley could go to Mossend, Garston or Ardley?

Yes, that's true - it's a development of the old mandatory/conditional A, B and C system in BR days.

But the 'it's full - there's no paths' excuse is given for why the passenger service to Northampton can't be improved, Not that I'm bitter ...
 

Zomboid

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Yes, that's true - it's a development of the old mandatory/conditional A, B and C system in BR days.

But the 'it's full - there's no paths' excuse is given for why the passenger service to Northampton can't be improved, Not that I'm bitter ...
I think the issue there is that passenger paths are different to non-passenger paths.
 

zwk500

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It would surely not be beyond the whit of man to see a possible 'Southern chord' to a triangular junction with south-facing leads at both ends; or a west- north chord in the vicinity of Bicester Village - Bicester North, although with a lot more urban development to contend with for that one.
It's certainly not impossible to see a possible southern curve at Aynho but it's never going to stack up for a public business case, so you would be relying on the freight industry to collectively fund it, and to support NR pushing it through the planning process. It's a very, very long shot.
Isn't the deal with freight paths that they're always on there but don't always run, and can have several origin/ destinations for a given path? So on a given day the 1100 from Wembley could go to Mossend, Garston or Ardley?
If operators bid for it, yes you can have what are referred to as 'Y' paths, which enables a path to be utilised more often if the traffic doesn't require a single Origin-Destination pair to run all the time. (You also get 'Q' paths, which also don't always run but are not normally sharing a path).
But the 'it's full - there's no paths' excuse is given for why the passenger service to Northampton can't be improved, Not that I'm bitter ...
Northampton has a half-hourly service (with additional peak fasts) to London taking c.1hr to cover the 60 miles or so with only 4 or 5 intermediate stops, what improvements would you make? The only improvement I'd make would be running more of them at max length.
 

The Planner

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Yes, that's true - it's a development of the old mandatory/conditional A, B and C system in BR days.

But the 'it's full - there's no paths' excuse is given for why the passenger service to Northampton can't be improved, Not that I'm bitter ...
There are strategic freight paths they are probably looking at switching on. Either that or they will just Y path with something else.
 

Falcon1200

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If a rail freight terminal in Oxfordshire, and near the M40, is needed and can be justified, surely somewhere around Banbury is a better location? In rail traffic terms at least.
 

67018

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If a rail freight terminal in Oxfordshire, and near the M40, is needed and can be justified, surely somewhere around Banbury is a better location? In rail traffic terms at least.
Geography might be a challenge with that one - there isn't a lot of undeveloped land near the railway around Banbury that isn't the Cherwell flood plain. It's not unusual to be travelling on an embankment across a large lake between Kings Sutton and Banbury after a wet winter. And I think it's already been mentioned that the big strategic benefit of Ardley is being on the existing road route from Southampton docks to the M1 as well as the M40.
 

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