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What actually happens when a station lift breaks down?

MadMac

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LA Metro has manufacturer’s (Mitsubishi) personnel on duty for the morning and evening peaks: they have Metro radios and respond to calls for lifts and escalators. Operations supervisors have keys and can attempt to reset escalators.
 
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Ken X

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Now I think of it, I'm a bit sceptical of the lifts that apparently have 100% availability for weeks on end, since most large machinery requires routine inspections and servicing that takes the equipment out of service, at least for a brief time.

Are lifts an exception to this? Can the required work typically be completed in less than 10 minutes, meaning that website can miss it (as the data is apparently only updated every 10 minutes)?
A passenger lift requires an inspection every six months by a "competent person ". This inspection took me approximately one hour for a two/three floor lift with the time increasing pro rata for subsequent floors. Of that time roughly forty minutes would be with the lift in "inspection mode" which may be recorded as down time. Very rarely would the lift be electrically isolated for more than a minute or two.

Regular servicing times depend entirely on the service level agreement. Electrical isolation would probably only occur if electrical or major works were required.
 

Torfaen

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At Newport, the lift to P2/3 seems to fail frequently, and the default response is for most trains that would have used the island platform to use 1 and 4 instead (but perversely move the Ebbw Vale trains from 4 to 3 - anyone unable to use the stairs presumably having to go via Cardiff?)
For anyone changing trains, it is a long trek from P1 to P4, and many people with reduced mobility who were expecting to do an easy cross-platform manoeuvre could be significantly put out by this policy.
 

py_megapixel

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A passenger lift requires an inspection every six months by a "competent person ". This inspection took me approximately one hour for a two/three floor lift with the time increasing pro rata for subsequent floors. Of that time roughly forty minutes would be with the lift in "inspection mode" which may be recorded as down time. Very rarely would the lift be electrically isolated for more than a minute or two.

Regular servicing times depend entirely on the service level agreement. Electrical isolation would probably only occur if electrical or major works were required.
This is interesting information, thank you.

Regardless of whether the lift is electrically isolated, I do think the inspection should be recorded as downtime if it occurs while trains are running. The effect on passengers is the same regardless of why the lift is out of use, after all.
 

Bantamzen

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I know an office I used to be based at had 8 lifts, and it was very rare for all to be fully functional at the same time. Some seemed to break down more than others, though I've no idea why. I'd image though that at railway stations many are more exposed to the elements, and so are perhaps more likely to break down? I do remember the ones at Shipley station were prone to water damage and even flooding during winters, so being exposed to the UK's fine weather systems likely doesn't help reliability.
 

ic31420

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Where I have worked in the past lifts and getting an engineer to visit and diagnose isn't usually the issue. That can usually be arranged in a few days (hours if you pay the fees).

It's parts that's the problem. We even had one lift stripped over a period of months to keep other lifts going across the estate.

Lifts are not like a toaster or Microwave or even a commercial oven. They're a VERY significant investment and often have LONG service lives. They are often bespoke to installations.

Manufactures have opened, closed, gone bust, amalgamated and so on. There is a significant amount of electronic and electro mechanical equipment as well as mechanical stuff that goes obsolete. I seem to recall a small sensor or switch needing replacing once that would only have been a few pounds but they was obsolete and couldn't be sourced.

They replaced the part with another type but had to take a part off the lift and modify it and then fully test the operation.

It all takes time that has to be fitted in with other jobs. Some jobs need 2+ staff for safety.
 

Taunton

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If possible, passengers can circulate (instead of going A-B, go A-C-change-C-B) if it's only impact one of the platform(s) and the other one is working fine. Or alternative transport provision (normally a taxi) would be required.
At Canning Town there is a DLR Beckton platform at high level, the Jubilee Line at an intermediate level, and the concourse at bottom level. One lift serves all three.

When the lift was out of service TfL posted in all seriousness the following instructions for wheelchair etc passengers needing to interchange between DLR and Jubilee:

- Arrive on DLR from Beckton at upper level.
- Cross the island platform for DLR to Woolwich.
- Go three stations, to City Airport, where there is also an island platform.
- Cross the island platform to a DLR train for Stratford
- Go five stations, passing through Canning Town again, to West Ham.
- Use two lifts at West Ham to transfer to the Jubilee Line
- Board Jubilee Line. If heading for Central London pass through Canning Town for the third time.

Anyone not on a free pass, including those travelling with them, was to follow up with TfL, as the maximum journey time was likely exceeded.
 

BRX

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From a bit of reading around, it seems that the problem with fixing lifts is that they can come from a multitude of companies, some of those companies disappear during the lifespan of the lifts, and even when they don't, they don't keep a stock of spare parts because of the cost of doing so. And all this is compounded by the fact that most installations are bespoke.

It seems like the better approach, with the help of a time machine, would be to start again with a standardised lift design, optimised for the demands of railway stations, with as many common parts between variants as possible, and keep a stock of spares available, well matched to likely future demands.

Apparently there are about 1400 lifts on the rail network.

All pie in the sky I know.

I was interested in the answer to this question where it mentions LU used to have the rights to manufacture escalator spares itself:

 

ClivePage

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This website, stationlifts.org.uk, is in principle a useful site but based on my own experience I don't believe their results are at all reliable. I don't know where their data come from but clearly flawed. For example at Luton Station there are two lifts in the multi-storey car park. The site shows the 365-day reliability for lift 1 is 8% and for lift 2 is 37%. It is certainly true that one of the two lifts is often out of order, but I don't think the situation is as bad as this, one sometimes finds both lifts actually working.

Contrast this with Luton Airport Parkway where there are three main lifts to the platforms from the original overbridge. These are shown as 100% reliable over 365 days. That's complete nonsense - several of these lifts have been out of action for days at a time and on multiple occasions. Quite often warnings about them reach the nationalrail website when you look for trains to/from this station, so my guess is none of them is more than about 90% reliable.

An amusing anecdote: some months ago I was waiting for some time on at Luton Aitport Parkway on the island platform (2/3) for a train - very late of course this being Thameslink. While waiting I saw that a small team of lift maintainers was just finishing up, doing their final tests, and then taking off the "out of service" notices and putting the lift back into use. While I was still there a couple of passengers used the lift, which promptly broke down again. At this point my train finally arrived so I didn't get to see whether the maintenance team were still on the premises to be shown the results of their ministrations.
 

Carbean

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On cruise liners, lifts are essential as due to age of some passengers who cannot use stairs and crew taking passengers baggage to their cabins. If a lift is broken, it is usually repaired during the night. Therefore if the liners can carry their own lift engineers, would it not be an idea for the railway to employ their own lift engineers and have them based at strategic locations.
 

BRX

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On cruise liners, lifts are essential as due to age of some passengers who cannot use stairs and crew taking passengers baggage to their cabins. If a lift is broken, it is usually repaired during the night. Therefore if the liners can carry their own lift engineers, would it not be an idea for the railway to employ their own lift engineers and have them based at strategic locations.
I imagine on cruise liners they have some redundancy, that is, they aren't totally reliant on one single lift to get between two decks. This is the problem with station lifts ... there's often no redundancy at all (understandably to some extent due to limited space)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

don't know where their data come from but clearly flawed.
They say where it's from here:


It seems to be the same data that feeds this:

 

Iskra

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On the subject of lifts the ones at Sheffield Station particularly at the main part & on platforms 6-8 seem very slow & unreliable at times. Long queues seem to build up regularly for the lift at the main building which has been extremely slow for a long while
This is very true, one of the slowest lifts I have encountered.

To answer the OP's question: for some stations there is a contingency arrangement. For example at Chester, there is a barrow crossing across the end of the platforms which is maintained specifically for instances of lift failure. Other stations have alternate goods bridges/subways/lifts that can be used e.g. Sheffield and Leeds.

If things got really desperate, I suppose a passenger could travel one stop down the line, cross there, then travel back to the original station and alight on the opposite platform from when they started. Alternatively, they might just have a taxi arranged for their entire journey if that is easier.
 

Rescars

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I wonder how the reliability of station lifts on the network compare with those on LU as locations such as Covent Garden, where lifts provide the primary access for all passengers to and from the platforms.
 

childwallblues

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On Tuesday the lift from the overbridge to Platforms 6 to 11 at Crewe was out of order. No Avanti station staff appeared to be available to assist at the time of my passing at 1300.
 
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Failed Unit

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Depends on the station I have found. At Welwyn Garden City they find a solution. (Double back to Hatfield / Stevenage depending on where you are going). St Pancras is awful. If you are using the GN routes you get taken to Finsbury Park. Thameslink double back at Farringdon. The worse is London Bridge (Thameslink) make you way to Blackfriars under your own power. Because of the Thameslink island double back options are lost.
 

dosxuk

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I wonder how the reliability of station lifts on the network compare with those on LU as locations such as Covent Garden, where lifts provide the primary access for all passengers to and from the platforms.
Reliability is directly connected to the amount of money spent on the design/installation, and the amount of money spent on maintenance - preventative and reactive. The lifts at Covent Garden are probably some of the most heavily used in the entire country, and have been updated multiple times at huge expense. That same level of investment is likely not viable for the vast majority of station lifts across the UK.

So, what actually happens when a lift breaks down, beyond a "sorry for the inconvenience" sign being stuck on the door? Are there any systems in place that allow it to be looked at immediately, by which I mean within an hour or two, to see if a fix can be done?
Statistically, you're not likely to see the quick fixes - by their very nature, the disruption is short lived - but that doesn't mean they don't happen. When they've broken because of something obvious and easily fixed, like something getting stuck in the door runners, they're probably fixed before anyone (other than those waiting at the time) has even noticed. Without specifically monitoring the availability, it's difficult to get a clear indication from just casual observation. Place I used to work in, if you only came in every Monday morning you'd be convinced the lifts were constantly broken - but actually despite the "Not In Use" lights - they were actually working fine, and being used to load stock from the non-public side.
 

KNN

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Lots of people rely on lifts to make journeys possible, so I would say they are a critical part of the rail infrastructure. But it feels to me like a lift failure is not really treated as an urgent situation. Lifts, it seems, can sometimes be out of action for days.

So, what actually happens when a lift breaks down, beyond a "sorry for the inconvenience" sign being stuck on the door? Are there any systems in place that allow it to be looked at immediately, by which I mean within an hour or two, to see if a fix can be done?

Is my perception that broken down lifts are not addressed urgently an unfair one?
From an operational point of view, the TOC I work for will do as much as they can if they are aware of a passenger who needs a lift, replatforming being the obvious first choice. But also getting off early and providing a taxi, or taking people a stop beyond and then back to a suitable platform.

At one point no trains were stopping at a particular set of platforms because of the lift being out of use.

I only know the one example, but to say it isn't being taken seriously isn't fair.
 

BRX

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From an operational point of view, the TOC I work for will do as much as they can if they are aware of a passenger who needs a lift, replatforming being the obvious first choice. But also getting off early and providing a taxi, or taking people a stop beyond and then back to a suitable platform.

At one point no trains were stopping at a particular set of platforms because of the lift being out of use.

I only know the one example, but to say it isn't being taken seriously isn't fair.
Sure, I know these kinds of things can be done at some stations.

I guess I am thinking about stations where none of these options are available. My two closest ones happen to be examples. So for people entirely dependent on the lifts, many journeys simply become impossible to do by train if the lifts aren't working.
 

KNN

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Sure, I know these kinds of things can be done at some stations.

I guess I am thinking about stations where none of these options are available. My two closest ones happen to be examples. So for people entirely dependent on the lifts, many journeys simply become impossible to do by train if the lifts aren't working.
I think you have to make it difficult for the TOC unfortunately, they care about delays and complaints figures.

And book assitance in advance if you can (you shouldn't have to, but it helps with passenger trends data which in turn should eventually feed into policies and staffing).
 

EbbwJunction1

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At Newport, the lift to P2/3 seems to fail frequently, and the default response is for most trains that would have used the island platform to use 1 and 4 instead (but perversely move the Ebbw Vale trains from 4 to 3 - anyone unable to use the stairs presumably having to go via Cardiff?)
For anyone changing trains, it is a long trek from P1 to P4, and many people with reduced mobility who were expecting to do an easy cross-platform manoeuvre could be significantly put out by this policy.
Another strange thing about this lift (which I use on a regular basis) is that the "security has been called" button is often illuminated, despite there being no obvious problem. The lift is working while this is happening and there's no sign of any security waiting on either the ground floor or the bridge. I have mentioned this to platform staff, but with no obvious results.
 

yorkie

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Does anyone who works at stations (or other premeses) that have lifts know what happens to their lifts in the event of a fire alarm (if soeone is already in the lift at that point)?

Does the lift immediately return to the ground floor (or nearest floor etc) and open its doors? Do some lifts stop where they are for the duration of the alarm and if so, would this be a safety issue?

Are there any rules around this subject anywhere, and if so are the rules the same at railway stations as for other buildings such as hotels, etc?
 

Mike395

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Does anyone who works at stations (or other premeses) that have lifts know what happens to their lifts in the event of a fire alarm (if soeone is already in the lift at that point)?

Does the lift immediately return to the ground floor (or nearest floor etc) and open its doors? Do some lifts stop where they are for the duration of the alarm and if so, would this be a safety issue?

Are there any rules around this subject anywhere, and if so are the rules the same at railway stations as for other buildings such as hotels, etc?
Modern lifts will - mostly - have a preset evacuation level all lifts will return to and open the doors at, in the event of a fire alarm in its host building. I have had a lift turn round halfway up a building, quite the odd experience!
 

Ken X

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Does anyone who works at stations (or other premeses) that have lifts know what happens to their lifts in the event of a fire alarm (if soeone is already in the lift at that point)?

Does the lift immediately return to the ground floor (or nearest floor etc) and open its doors? Do some lifts stop where they are for the duration of the alarm and if so, would this be a safety issue?

Are there any rules around this subject anywhere, and if so are the rules the same at railway stations as for other buildings such as hotels, etc?
This depends on how the lift is programmed. Most will drop all calls and move to ground floor where they will open the doors, leave them open and come out of service. Another option is for the lift to consult the fire alarm system and, if the ground floor is where the fire is, move to a designated alternative floor where the doors will open and the lift shut down as before.

On the fire alarm being cancelled most will return to service automatically, others will require a manual reset by an engineer.
 
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noddingdonkey

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It feels to me much more likely that a station lift will be out of service, than one in a retail store.

Finding a lift out of order at a shop is pretty rare. On the other hand, finding one or more of the lifts out of action at my two nearest stations with lifts, both with annual exits/entries measured in the millions and both of which are interchange stations, is commonplace.

Does the fact that railway lifts operate as multiple affect this? On a typical two platform station you need one lift to get to a subway or footbridge and another one for the other platform. Presumably should either lift be faulty, both are taken out of service. In a retail place with more than one life, one failing doesn't take the other one out.
 

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