Free Bus Travel for young people: Soon to be in England.

Magrar said:

Sorry, but no. If there is anyone who knows that a child's bus fare is buttons compared to how much ice cream, fish and chips and indeed literally anything you might want to purchase on day out costs, it's working class parents.

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I'm acutely aware that working class parents will know the cost of things, having grown up in a working class household and watched my folks struggle to afford things at times. I'd be interested to know how much you think a child fare normally costs and which area you're basing your assumptions on, but I can assure you that in some places child fares aren't "buttons".

I'm going to give an example and I'll be using prices from my local area without any caps or free travel schemes. I'm assuming two adults and two kids taking a trip from town to the village where I live and I'm going to assume that they'd be using day tickets as that would normally be the cheapest way to do the 14-mile round trip. At current prices you'd be looking at 2 x £9.10 for the adults and 2 x £4.55 (assuming a child ticket is half of the adult price) - that's £27.30. Now, let's assume that they want to have fish and chips; while I can't find a more recent price list, as of November 2025 a fish supper was £10.25 in my local chippy, with kids' portions coming in at £6.50 - a total of £33.50. It's not a huge difference, is it? Total spend would be £60.80 and doesn't even include things like drinks.

Now let's apply the £3 cap for adults and free travel for the kids. Fares would be £12 there and back and the chippy costs would remain the same, resulting in a total spend of £45.50. That's a difference of £15.30, easily enough to cover a few drinks and maybe some ice cream; it's not a huge amount to someone who can afford it, but for those who have to count every penny it can make a massive difference.

The figures I've used are purely for illustrative purposes. I live in a part of Scotland where a £2 adult single fare cap applies and there already is a free travel scheme for young people so, while it's not an entirely realistic scenario, it could easily be applied elsewhere. The example I've used is a relatively short out-and-back journey on one bus service, but you can easily see how travel costs could spiral if a family wanted to travel a bit further afield and had to use more than one bus service to get there. Add in a third or fourth child, or an additional adult if your eldest has turned 16 and has to pay full fare, and the cost increases even more.

Magrar said:

Although to be fair, it might cost the same as a plasric inflatable or some other type of plastic tat. Another win for the environment, since such things, in working class families, tend to be one use only. If not left at the beach, they are stuffed in the wheelie bin at home.

It takes time and money, and most of all space, to have the luxury of being organised enough to ensure your plastic tat is correctly stored at home between seasons. And of course, it's far easier to transport such tat, if you have a car. Hence why some bus users leave it the beach.

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It's a bit of a broad statement to suggest that working class families are more likely to leave stuff behind at the beach! If you have seen any research that can back up your assertion I'd be happy to take it on board, but it would be a subject for a separate thread because it's utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

Magrar said:

Free bus travel wouldn't remotely factor into whether a truly working class family can afford a day out, even if they only had one kid. How do we know this? Because that's exactly what the rich, out of touch, wouldn't know a working class family if they tripped over them, politician, said this scheme is for.

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Free bus travel can factor into whether a truly working class family can afford a day out. How do we know this? Because I have provided some actual figures. I know what a working class family is without having to trip over one and I know how much of a difference it would have made to my parents if such a scheme had existed when my brother and I were kids.

Who is out of touch here?

Some good points there, @GusB.

In my local area, which I suspect is fairly typical, the local council leisure centres offer free swimming, the libraries and museums have free holiday sessions for children, while the town councils offer free sports sessions. Free bus travel then completes that "package". In previous holidays we have heard of parents saying things along the lines of "all these free activities are great, but we can't afford to get there". As an extra bonus many food take aways took part in the reduced VAT scheme. All of these have made a difference.

I've mentioned the free child bus travel scheme to a number of families I know with children under 15 and all liked the idea and said they would probably use it, some mentioning that they had already benefited from the VAT reductions at a couple of places. In one family dad is a head teacher, and mum is a teacher, so on good salaries, but when I mentioned the scheme they said that their children like a bus ride and the combination of the adult fare-cap and free child fares certainly put that in the list of holiday activities. Not that they couldn't afford the full fares, but without the prompt they probably wouldn't have considered a bus trip. Looking at the scheme another way, that's 2 adults making a return fare-cap journey which the bus company gained, and depending on how the final reimbursement figures work out, they may also have gained something from the additional child tickets.

I look forward to the figures from the scheme once DfT have collated them, and to see if any comments show up in the next round of Passenger Focus surveys.

820KDV said:

Some good points there, @GusB.

In my local area, which I suspect is fairly typical, the local council leisure centres offer free swimming, the libraries and museums have free holiday sessions for children, while the town councils offer free sports sessions. Free bus travel then completes that "package". In previous holidays we have heard of parents saying things along the lines of "all these free activities are great, but we can't afford to get there". As an extra bonus many food take aways took part in the reduced VAT scheme. All of these have made a difference.

I've mentioned the free child bus travel scheme to a number of families I know with children under 15 and all liked the idea and said they would probably use it, some mentioning that they had already benefited from the VAT reductions at a couple of places. In one family dad is a head teacher, and mum is a teacher, so on good salaries, but when I mentioned the scheme they said that their children like a bus ride and the combination of the adult fare-cap and free child fares certainly put that in the list of holiday activities. Not that they couldn't afford the full fares, but without the prompt they probably wouldn't have considered a bus trip. Looking at the scheme another way, that's 2 adults making a return fare-cap journey which the bus company gained, and depending on how the final reimbursement figures work out, they may also have gained something from the additional child tickets.

I look forward to the figures from the scheme once DfT have collated them, and to see if any comments show up in the next round of Passenger Focus surveys.

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Completely disagree. To your first point, none of those 'free' activities aren't free, someone has to pay for them. If people can't afford a bus fare in their local area to take advantage of a taxpayer funded event, they have some serious budgeting issues. This mindset that people just devolve all responsibility to the state is maddening; my local council is providing free events with free food to people who no doubt live off large chunks of free cash, but now we must give them free travel too!

In your second example, people who can easily afford to pay for their children's travel are getting free rides. How is that a sensible use of taxpayers cash given all the other demands placed on public spending?

The whole scheme was a complete waste of money, dreamt up by the moronic duo of Starmer & Reeves. Thankfully the nightmare ends tomorrow.

KHCT said:

Completely disagree. To your first point, none of those 'free' activities aren't free, someone has to pay for them. If people can't afford a bus fare in their local area to take advantage of a taxpayer funded event, they have some serious budgeting issues. This mindset that people just devolve all responsibility to the state is maddening; my local council is providing free events with free food to people who no doubt live off large chunks of free cash, but now we must give them free travel too!

In your second example, people who can easily afford to pay for their children's travel are getting free rides. How is that a sensible use of taxpayers cash given all the other demands placed on public spending?

The whole scheme was a complete waste of money, dreamt up by the moronic duo of Starmer & Reeves. Thankfully the nightmare ends tomorrow.

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Sadly here in Manchester it doesn’t, and returns in a slightly different form from January thanks to Bev Craig.

Not sure whether it’s the case everywhere but here in Manchester children going to school with parents on low income or on long term benefits qualify for a scholar pass which enables the child to free or discounted travel to and from school. It also enables the kids to free school diners etc so these schemes already exist.

I’ve already said I think it would be a lot more be beneficial to simply give all kids free travel to and from school.

Looks like the law of unintended consequences applies: it appears the kids in past weekends were causing havoc on the double deckers normally in service on the local main town service so today were all replaced with single deckers - with inevitable capacity problems. I presume same will apply tomorrow

KHCT said:

Completely disagree. To your first point, none of those 'free' activities aren't free, someone has to pay for them. If people can't afford a bus fare in their local area to take advantage of a taxpayer funded event, they have some serious budgeting issues. This mindset that people just devolve all responsibility to the state is maddening; my local council is providing free events with free food to people who no doubt live off large chunks of free cash, but now we must give them free travel too!

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The activities are free to those who take part in them and of course there's a cost somewhere. Do you propose scrapping the provision of free school education, or making people pay for GP appointments? There's a cost to those too, but we accept the benefits of people being able to read and write and children not dying before the age of two.

It's also not just people devolving responsibility to the state; in this case the state has recognised that the cost of living has increased and schemes such as this go some way to alleviating that. There are families who are genuinely struggling and it's unfair to suggest that they all have serious budgeting issues. In my experience it's people who are on the lowest incomes who are best at budgeting because every penny has to count. Your suggestion that people "no doubt live off large chunks of free cash" is quite telling.

KHCT said:

In your second example, people who can easily afford to pay for their children's travel are getting free rides. How is that a sensible use of taxpayers cash given all the other demands placed on public spending?

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There are pensioners and disabled people who can easily afford to pay for travel but I don't grudge them having free travel. There are people who earn enough to afford private healthcare and private schools, but choose to use to use public services instead; I don't have a problem with that, either. I don't have kids so I should be exempt from having to fund state education, right?

Theres also the fact that people who would ordinarily travel by car are considering taking the bus. Isn't that a good thing? It's much bigger than just giving handouts to scroungers.

As someone who has been a working class parent for many years, some of the views on here are quite elitist and shocking - but unsurprising from people who clearly don't really have to worry about how to afford a bus ticket.

And I bet a fair few of them are "freeloading" off the tax payer by having a retired person's bus pass.

BuhSnarf said:

As someone who has been a working class parent for many years, some of the views on here are quite elitist and shocking - but unsurprising from people who clearly don't really have to worry about how to afford a bus ticket.

And I bet a fair few of them are "freeloading" off the tax payer by having a retired person's bus pass.

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And other people will be quite shocked at the entitlement that some people feel to the money of others - but unsurprising from people who are lazy and unambitious who can't be bothered/are unable to improve their lot.

Do you mean those freeloaders using retired person's bus passes who have paid their fair share of taxes (or more) when they were working?

(Actually neither group is really shocked - it is not as if this debate hasn't been playing itself out since time immemorial)

Chucking labels and insults at each other, or generalisations tarring all with the same brush, doesn't help much. I daresay most people have members of their extended family in both sides and this will cloud their judgement, both good and bad. Somewhere in between is a compromise, a fair distribution, but as this will always be a subjective view and personal opinion, there is never going to be a consensus point on everything.

RT4038 said:

And other people will be quite shocked at the entitlement that some people feel to the money of others - but unsurprising from people who are lazy and unambitious who can't be bothered/are unable to improve their lot.

Do you mean those freeloaders using retired person's bus passes who have paid their fair share of taxes (or more) when they were working?

(Actually neither group is really shocked - it is not as if this debate hasn't been playing itself out since time immemorial)

Chucking labels and insults at each other, or generalisations tarring all with the same brush, doesn't help much. I daresay most people have members of their extended family in both sides and this will cloud their judgement, both good and bad. Somewhere in between is a compromise, a fair distribution, but as this will always be a subjective view and personal opinion, there is never going to be a consensus point on everything.

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And what of those who get a retired bus pass without ever contributing to the tax system because they were staying at home parents?

I personally don't have an issue with either group getting a free ride (literally) because I don't see a problem helping those in need - even it means it helps a small proportion who "some" don't feel are deserving.

BuhSnarf said:

As someone who has been a working class parent for many years, some of the views on here are quite elitist and shocking - but unsurprising from people who clearly don't really have to worry about how to afford a bus ticket.

And I bet a fair few of them are "freeloading" off the tax payer by having a retired person's bus pass.

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Both my parents worked, and I vividly remember while at secondary school being told on many occasions that if I wanted a school dinner I’d have to use my bus money and walk to and from school. That’s exactly what I did.

There are many ways the burden could be taken off struggling households, the main one being the crippling energy costs.

mayneway said:

Both my parents worked, and I vividly remember while at secondary school being told on many occasions that if I wanted a school dinner I’d have to use my bus money and walk to and from school. That’s exactly what I did.

There are many ways the burden could be taken off struggling households, the main one being the crippling energy costs.

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Of course there are many ways, but that doesn't mean that this one doesn't also help.

Again, I say this as someone who has been a working class parent (still is in many ways, but better off now) and not from recollection or years gone by experience.

BuhSnarf said:

Of course there are many ways, but that doesn't mean that this one doesn't also help.

Again, I say this as someone who has been a working class parent (still is in many ways, but better off now) and not from recollection or years gone by experience.

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Oh so because my experience was in the past it doesn’t count.

Sadly I disagree completely with your take on this. Yes it’s helping hard up parents, and yes all the cherubs that are fed up and have nothing to do can ride around all day and not worry about the cost, but the reality is it’s been given with one hand and taken away with the other.

Thankfully it ends tonight and that’s it, fingers crossed when data from driver surveys and other bodies is taken into account it won’t return any time soon!

mayneway said:

Oh so because my experience was in the past it doesn’t count.

Sadly I disagree completely with your take on this. Yes it’s helping hard up parents, and yes all the cherubs that are fed up and have nothing to do can ride around all day and not worry about the cost, but the reality is it’s been given with one hand and taken away with the other.

Thankfully it ends tonight and that’s it, fingers crossed when data from driver surveys and other bodies is taken into account it won’t return any time soon!

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When did I say your experience doesn't count?

I was merely pointing out that I am currently a parent who is in the target group for who these incentives are supposed to help (and they do.)

BuhSnarf said:

When did I say your experience doesn't count?

I was merely pointing out that I am currently a parent who is in the target group for who these incentives are supposed to help (and they do.)

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Yes and completely dismissed my comment as an experience of years gone by. It’s nothing short of rude.

I'm a bit disappointed with the poll, it seems its 2/3 don't like the scheme, without any real exploration. I support the scheme but acknowledge there issues with it.

RT4038 said:

And other people will be quite shocked at the entitlement that some people feel to the money of others - but unsurprising from people who are lazy and unambitious who can't be bothered/are unable to improve their lot.

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This seems to be a self-fulfilling position mind. When I was 16 I worked somewhere where the bus fare was £5.70 return. That was close to double the minimum wage for my age. Given I was in full time education I could only work part time, but what incentive is there to pick up a 4 hour shift if around half of it goes on transport alone? I was fortunate that my employer paid everybody the same regardless of age, but the factory next to us didn't.

See today, in Wales that would be £1 each way. In Scotland, it would be free.

Young people being able to get to sports clubs, social activities, volunteering, etc helps their development which in turn can help them with their job prospects, but again, they have to be able to afford to get to these things.

RT4038 said:

Do you mean those freeloaders using retired person's bus passes who have paid their fair share of taxes (or more) when they were working?

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There's a lot of pensioners who receive a free bus pass who have barely paid income tax.

Before the state pension is brought up next, remember also that you can get class 1 NI credits by signing on to Jobseekers or receiving other benefits, so again, it's not all about taxes.

RT4038 said:

Chucking labels and insults at each other, or generalisations tarring all with the same brush, doesn't help much. I daresay most people have members of their extended family in both sides and this will cloud their judgement, both good and bad. Somewhere in between is a compromise, a fair distribution, but as this will always be a subjective view and personal opinion, there is never going to be a consensus point on everything.

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I agree, but that seems at odds with terms like 'freeloaders'.

mayneway said:

Oh so because my experience was in the past it doesn’t count.

Sadly I disagree completely with your take on this. Yes it’s helping hard up parents, and yes all the cherubs that are fed up and have nothing to do can ride around all day and not worry about the cost, but the reality is it’s been given with one hand and taken away with the other.

Thankfully it ends tonight and that’s it, fingers crossed when data from driver surveys and other bodies is taken into account it won’t return any time soon!

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You do seem to think people are dismissing your experience if theirs wasn't the same, however polite they are.

Deerfold said:

You do seem to think people are dismissing your experience if theirs wasn't the same, however polite they are.

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Not at all but let’s be honest someone who makes two maybe three short journeys a day on a bus isn’t going to have the same experience as someone driving a bus for 10 hours are they?

I’ve had my say on the scheme and luckily it’s all over and back to normal from tomorrow.

The simple truth is that it filled the buses with badly behaved children. Vaping, feet on the seats, shouting, mocking other passengers, music on their phones being played loudly. One set had gone straight from the river to the bus, and were soaking the seats from their wet swimming costumes, soaking through their thin, short clothes. Imagine the poor fare-paying passenger who attempts to sit there afterwards.

And who funded this foolish experiment? The paying, tax-paying adult passengers whose journeys were being spoiled and who could no longer get a seat.

Fortunately it has ended and so have the school holidays.

mayneway said:

Yes and completely dismissed my comment as an experience of years gone by. It’s nothing short of rude.

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I am not dismissing your experience, I am merely saying that your experience is as a child of a working class family - from an unknown number of years ago - whereas my experience is of being a single working parent of three children within the last ten years.

Whilst I was also the child of a working class family about 30 years ago, as a kid I had a very different experience to what my parents will have had and what I am now experiencing in the past decade as a working parent. If you have been a working parent then absolutely you will of course be aware that any little thing helps.

You mentioned earlier in the thread a number of times that you experience the situation as a bus driver who deals with kids on a daily basis so you will have an experience that many of us will not. I have an experience as the intended audience of this scheme. I haven't been rude or inpolite to you at all during this thread, if you feel I have I apologise as I have no ill will towards you or any bus driver. But maybe you should consider the way you have been branding kids as that certainly isn't polite in any way.

overthewater said:

I'm a bit disappointed with the poll, it seems its 2/3 don't like the scheme, without any real exploration. I support the scheme but acknowledge there issues with it.

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I think it's probably indicative of the demographic of this forum, if I'm honest, but I agree it's dissapointing. I would imagine though that any decision on future schemes will take a mix of customer, driver and company feedback to make it even better going forward to benefit those kids who really benefit from having the freedom to travel whilst also deterring those who wish to cause ASB.

Let's hope you have a better day tomorrow

mayneway said:

Not at all but let’s be honest someone who makes two maybe three short journeys a day on a bus isn’t going to have the same experience as someone driving a bus for 10 hours are they?

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The only one I see dismissing others' views is you. Here you are assuming that the comments of others come from a minimum of experience, however much they actually have.
There have been other drivers saying they don't see the same as you.
It's quite possible you're both being completely truthful - you've just had different experiences.

Deerfold said:

The only one I see dismissing others' views is you. Here you are assuming that the comments of others come from a minimum of experience, however much they actually have.
There have been other drivers saying they don't see the same as you.
It's quite possible you're both being completely truthful - you've just had different experiences.

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I must have missed the other drivers commenting but I stand by my case that firstly that anti social behaviour is very very different depending on where you live, and that most drivers and support staff see it very differently to the average traveller.

mayneway said:

I must have missed the other drivers commenting but I stand by my case that firstly that anti social behaviour is very very different depending on where you live, and that most drivers and support staff see it very differently to the average traveller.

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But that's the point, no one is discounting your view as a driver.

Just pointing out that the drivers view isn't the only one to consider. Passenger views (including those who have kids) and kids themselves views are also important.

As the free travel for young people comes to an end I thought that I would share my observations.

Most of my bus travel during August has been on rural routes and inter urban routes in Nottinghamshire and a few days in mostly rural and coastal East Yorkshire. In these areas all the teenagers I have seen travelling, even when in groups, have been very well behaved. It’s been good to see them getting out and about during the school summer holiday and meeting up with their friends without relying on parents taking them in cars. In rural areas schools cover a very wide catchment area, and living in a rural area they can often be quite isolated from their friends. I’ve seen numerous teenagers travelling to neighbouring villages with groups of friends meeting them at the bus stop. Some I have seen have got on/off the bus in somewhat remote locations having walked to a bus stop on the main road.

I fully understand the problems there may have been with kids riding around in groups for the fun of it in urban areas and the anti social behaviour that has taken place. When I was in East Yorkshire I saw and heard at first hand some of the clientele who were wandering around Hull Bus Station in groups. I can fully understand how bus drivers and other passengers could feel threatened by their behaviour. However, what I saw outside of large urban areas was good behaviour and teenagers gaining some independence from their parents. To conclude along the East Yorkshire Coast there were lots of families travelling with children so perhaps they had decided to leave their car at the holiday camps and travel into places like Bridlington by bus.

mayneway said:

I must have missed the other drivers commenting but I stand by my case that firstly that anti social behaviour is very very different depending on where you live, and that most drivers and support staff see it very differently to the average traveller.

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And I haven't seen anyone dismiss that opinion - though I'm not sure how you speak for most drivers.

mayneway said:

I must have missed the other drivers commenting but I stand by my case that firstly that anti social behaviour is very very different depending on where you live, and that most drivers and support staff see it very differently to the average traveller.

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Of course they would. It doesn't make the staff right by default though any more than it makes the parents or children's opinions right.

FWIW I am generally not of the opinion that the antisocial behaviour of a small number of members of a group ahould be used as a justification to remove a privilege like free travel that is supposed to empower and give independence to the rest. Children are pretty much the only group that would happen to.

The policy should be assessed based on whether it is providing value for money. I'm generally of the opinion now that we can do the most social good by spending a lot of money on buses and accessibility to the same, as this lifts up groups which most urgently need the help.

The scheme has come to an end now and I think it may catch a number of young people out today who may assume it will continue for the rest of the school summer holidays.

On my routes in Merseyside I have not seen any anti-social behavior that I wouldn't normally see as a result of the scheme. I have noticed the buses slightly busier with young people as a result of the scheme particularly on journeys to and from Southport.

By contrast I have noticed Merseyrail a bit quieter this school summer holiday with young people traveling compared to previous years and I wonder if the free bus travel has had something to do with this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Tuesday at 01:55 ==

What I cannot understand is how Andy and his government were suddenly able to find the funding for this with very little notice. Yet are making disabled pass holders have to wait until April for their pass enhancements.

What also will be interesting is how this pass month has had an effect on how many kids have or haven't been travelling on Metrolink in and around Manchester, have they seen a decrease in passenger levels with not as many kids travelling in various areas due to them being able to get the bus instead.

gray1404 said:

What I cannot understand is how Andy and his government were suddenly able to find the funding for this with very little notice. Yet are making disabled pass holders have to wait until April for their pass enhancements.

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He didn't. It was a policy announced by Rachel Reeves when she was chancellor.

Something I noticed when travelling around yesterday was drivers warning kids that the scheme ends and from today it's back to the normal child fare (£1 in my area).

Having travelled around Cornwall, North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Devon, the worst offence I saw was two kids playing loud music at the back of the bus. The driver pulled over to ask them to turn off the speaker, which they did, and then thanked them for doing so when they got off. All very civilised and polite.

Otherwise, I saw some kids running around on buses and letting the acceleration of the bus push them back in their seats. Their parents either didn't seem to notice or care. With the risk of the bus braking suddenly and the kids falling face-first on the bus, the driver asked them to stay seated during the bus journey as there were plenty of seats available. They complied.

Every other bus journey I took, of which there were quite a few, were trouble free regarding the scheme. I'm not dismissing the experiences of others when it comes to antisocial behaviour, I'm just offering my own travel experiences during August.