Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Ah yes, the end walls would look better in a darker colour/texture than pastel light green. The lighting is lower and warmer than most 80x.
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Unpopular opinion: IETs are perfectly fine, for the most part.
- Thread starter OneTrackMinded
- Start date
Ah yes, the end walls would look better in a darker colour/texture than pastel light green. The lighting is lower and warmer than most 80x.
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brad465
Veteran Member
As a regular traveller with a bike, this is certainly an issue, however one advantage is at least they are accessible throughout the journey and easy to keep an eye on. On the HST Mk3s and the DVT storage, having to go in and out the train twice increased dwell time and was an anxiety driver due to a) being unable to check-up on them and b) worrying about getting it on/off in time before a train leaves.
In January 2020 I travelled from Paddington-Exeter sitting infront of comedian Kathy Burke. She had a 1st class ticket but was sat in standard, where she said she thought it was 1st class when the ticket inspector pointed this out, commenting on the seating standard. This is probably one of the best compliments the seating has every received and definitely fit in with her personality.
From BBC News of all outlets:
'Ironing board' seats to be replaced on Thameslink
www.bbc.co.uk
I wonder if the DfT will follow suit on LNER and eventually GWR?
'Ironing board' seats to be replaced on Thameslink
Thameslink to replace over 60,000 'ironing board' train seats
Greater Thameslink Railway says these upgrades are part of the wider renationalisation plans.
www.bbc.co.uk
I wonder if the DfT will follow suit on LNER and eventually GWR?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
LNER already have a plan to replace the bases on theirs I believe.
I haven't travelled on an Evero, but I reckon part of the issue with some of the newer trains is the colour scheme. When you have the stark white LED lighting having a colour that reflects a warmer tone like the red seats on LNER softens the overall effect. The dark carpets and seats on the Evero just accentuate the hospital like walls and roof
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, for all I don't like the seats I do like LNER's (ex Virgin) red interior scheme, it feels warm and welcoming. The various blues of other TOCs feel a bit stark.
It's mentioned on the 700 refurb thread that GBR intend to go for a red based moquette, about which I'm quite pleased.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Yes this is something I’m pleased with too, the hospital feel of 700s is awful but the SWT 707 interior seemed a bit nicer.
I don’t like blue interiors for trains in general. I think the TPE 802 Nova 1 (original, not so much the new look they’re rolling out now) has the most bland and soulless interior I’ve ever seen on a train.
…Closely followed by the WMR 172/2 and 172/3.
700s are all around horrible. The bland exterior, too bright interior, seats that make standing attractive... As a point of contrast they make the 800s seem luxurious.
LNERs 800 interior is much nicer than GWRs. I did do Chester to Crewe/ Stafford on an 805, but it didn't make any impression on me either way. Make of that what you will! Watching a single 805 run through on the down fast at Rugby made it seem like a very short train.
KevinTurvey
Member
- Joined
- 9 Oct 2016
- Messages
- 261
I've used the TPE ones extensively, the LNER ones less frequently and the Avanti ones on occasion so far. I do sympathise with the comments on the seat/bar/cushion issue, but I've never noticed the bad ride ride quality. I appreciate they get a bit lively above 110 but not really more so than other stock, certainly no worse than a mk4, massively better than a 397, but not as good as a ECML Eurostar.
Is the issue with the 9 car intermediate trailer coaches with the 'CAF type' inside framed bogies, which to be honest I can't recall ever sitting in one.
Is the issue with the 9 car intermediate trailer coaches with the 'CAF type' inside framed bogies, which to be honest I can't recall ever sitting in one.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Does seem to back up my point given that the only difference is the colour scheme (and possibly how much some seats have collapsed as they are newer).
I completely agree by the way - but it shows the power of colour in affecting how humans feel about things.
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I always seek those out because they don't have diesel engines. And I haven't noticed any ride quality issues. So maybe there's something there? But I have also travelled on 5 cars where there's no such choice and not noticed anything on those either.
Try going on one of GWR's more ropey 800s. Far worse seats, no buffet, and far too frequently short-formed.
The suspension just glides over rough track. I used to get complaints when a 175 substituted.
I remember being on one of the GWR units when they were brand new. First thing two women did when they sat down was exclaim about the hardness of the seats.
No one says anything the second time that they sit down. Their expectations have already been set.
I am of the view that it is not possible to make a train with comfortable suspension for the UK network with a 26m carriage length. The suspension has to devote too much effort to keeping the vehicle in-guage to have comfortable ride characteristics.
On the long journeys back to Penzance from Paddington on the Mk3s, once darkness fell, the interior lights dimmed, and the train ran through the darkened countryside; it felt like riding on air, and even the direction of travel was imperceptible.
No chance of that on an IET, never mind sitting in those seats for over 5hrs.
No chance of that on an IET, never mind sitting in those seats for over 5hrs.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Was it also in a pleasant pinkish shade from those rose tinted spectacles? The refurbished HSTs used a stark almost blue daylight colour of lighting which was absolutely horrid. Even before that in BR days they used excessively bright (though warm coloured) tubes and were only in dim mode if someone switched them, which staff generally didn't. Also, do you forget the almighty bang when another train passed a Mk3?
The refurb Mk3 lighting was so bad that I don't see how anyone could prefer a latter day Mk3 to an IET in that regard.
The lighting in the GWR HSTs was generally in dim mode, in fact, I don't recall ever experiencing what you call "a stark almost blue daylight colour of lighting which was absolutely horrid"
My first close-up experience of an IET was when our MK3 pulled into a station alongside one at night; the glare from the IET lighting lit up the interior of theHST MK3
My first close-up experience of an IET was when our MK3 pulled into a station alongside one at night; the glare from the IET lighting lit up the interior of theHST MK3
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Even in dim mode it was truly horrid. You're the first person who has ever said anything good about it that I can remember. Restful it certainly was not.
Without comment on the lighting (and as someone who likes his carriages brightly lit), I recognise the comparison between HST and IET. And as for the bang when passing another, I'll gladly have that back in retrun for losing the shaking like a 304 at speed that is so often my experience on the IET.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't remember it being particularly noteworthy. I find all 8xx seem to ride a bit like a 350 or 444 but slightly jigglier.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 18,726
There was plenty wrong with the FGW 2008 HST refurbishment, particularly lighting and seat layout with the claustrophobic Grammer “tombstones” lined up down the vehicle.
Ian Walmsley has it spot on in the current (September) Modern Railways.
Which, in fairness, is also a comment on the shift in bogie designs to inside framed since the Mk4.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
My memory of BR/Virgin HSTs used on the Holyhead-Euston run in the 90s (trains taken from the ICGW fleet at OOC) was the repeated vertical bounce even at modest 90mph speeds, not unlike being in an LMR 304.
I use 802s on Liverpool-York TPE runs and find the seats irritable after an hour. Changing to a 185 en-route gives a much nicer ambience (unless you have to stand in a 3-car set).
GBR will also have to unify the branding of the 80x fleets after they take control of all of them.
To me they are all versions of the original DfT IEPs for GWR/LNER.
Then we have to anticipate the Hitachi/Alstom HS2 build which needs to be near-perfect on both HS2 (320km/h) and classic WCML (200km/h) routes.
Thankfully the HS2 stock is part of the Zefiro platform rather than the A-Train platform like the IETs. If the Frecciarossa 1000 is anything to go by then the 895s will be solid units all around.
Topological
Established Member
I have exeperienced the bar, and would rather it was not there, but I like the IETs on GWR. Those are the only ones I have used because of my location. There would be no problem at all with CrossCountry ordering IETs in my opinion.
That said, I also like the voyagers (though occasionally wish they were longer, I never seem to get them when they are completely full),
I had not thought about the dwell time effect of making carriages longer. Silly really because clearly more seats means more time to get on/off through the same number of doors. However, if IETs are only running true limited stop routes then dwell is less of an issue. In GWR land things are a bit different because IETs become regular stoppers for parts of their journeys.
I do have a nostalgic view of the old Mk3s on the MML (less so when I moved to Manchester and was a regular on the WCML), and of the introduction of the Mk4s on the ECML. However, as others noted the rennovations did little for the Mk3 and though CrossCountry were ok in the final years, I was not a massive fan of the GWR ones. The Mk4s meanwhile are tired now and have limited value away from the ECML. Even the retirement main line of London to Norwich is not available for Mk4s any more.
That said, I also like the voyagers (though occasionally wish they were longer, I never seem to get them when they are completely full),
I had not thought about the dwell time effect of making carriages longer. Silly really because clearly more seats means more time to get on/off through the same number of doors. However, if IETs are only running true limited stop routes then dwell is less of an issue. In GWR land things are a bit different because IETs become regular stoppers for parts of their journeys.
I do have a nostalgic view of the old Mk3s on the MML (less so when I moved to Manchester and was a regular on the WCML), and of the introduction of the Mk4s on the ECML. However, as others noted the rennovations did little for the Mk3 and though CrossCountry were ok in the final years, I was not a massive fan of the GWR ones. The Mk4s meanwhile are tired now and have limited value away from the ECML. Even the retirement main line of London to Norwich is not available for Mk4s any more.