Dstock7080
Established Member
Yes I’ve got this, I was specifically interested in seeing F and T Stock with open doors in service.
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Old London Underground trains
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RailUK Forums
T stock would I think never have run so, with its slam doors. Possibly some around of F stock, before it being converted to air doors late 30s.
What did happen - well into my living memory, so into the 70s (?) - on both surface and tube stock - was in hot weather, the guard would keep his door (only) open for the breeze and a bit of cooling.
I did put question marks on the stock types in my original comment.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
The first set of doors appear to be open on this A stock, although it may be posed.
I remember this incident was noted on the forum by a user who was on the same train: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fatality-at-chalfont-latimer-a-warning.47749/Just found the link to an incident in 2012, when someone sadly died trying to smoke a cigarette out of the door. This was on a 1962 stock train to Amersham. Definitely not safe and sounds an awful way to go.
A MAN who had been 'drowning his sorrows' on the anniversary of his wife's death died after falling from a railway carriage and being dragged along the line, an inquest heard.
Man fell under train trying to smoke a cigarette
A MAN who had been 'drowning his sorrows' on the anniversary of his wife's death died after falling from a railway carriage and being…www.bucksfreepress.co.uk
Mervyn Allan opened the emergency exit of a London Underground carriage to smoke a cigarette when he slipped and fell under the wheels.
The retired taxi driver was then dragged by the train for up to a mile between Chorleywood and Chalfont and Latimer stations.
The accident happened shortly after 1am on Saturday June 25 on the last Metropolitan Line service back to Chesham of the day - but his family admitted they did not know why he got on the train.
He was attempting to make his way back to his home address in Buckingham Road, Aylesbury, and may have been trying to get to Amersham in order to change for a train to his home town.
His sister Christine Yearley said: "Why he got on that train I don't know. He must have got on the wrong train."
The inquest heard Mr Allan's blood-alcohol level was around three times above the legal drink-drive limit. Traces of cannabis were also found.
Mrs Yearley said he had been drinking to excess and taking cannabis because it was the six years to the day since his wife, Marion, died.
She told the inquest: "He was destroyed. Marion was his world. When she passed away, he went to pieces. He was drowning his sorrows [the night he died]."
Fellow passenger Matthew Edmonds, who had been at work in central London, told the High Wycombe inquest that 51-year-old Mr Allan had smoked a cigarette in the carriage with another man who had got on the train at Harrow and alighted at Moor Park.
Then, shortly after the train left Chorleywood, Mr Allan walked to the end of the carriage and opened the door to have another cigarette, but lost his footing on the wet step.
Mr Edmonds said: "It wasn't deliberate, he fell sideways under the train. I couldn't believe what had happened."
A passenger in the next carriage to the one Mr Allan was travelling in pulled the emergency cord and the train stopped at the next station, Chalfont and Latimer, in accordance with London Underground regulations.
His body had been dragged so far along the line, it was visible from the platform at Chalfont and Latimer.
He suffered massive head injuries and several broken bones to the right hand side of his body.
Jurors were told Metropolitan Line trains travel at higher speeds than at any other point on the Underground network because of the distances they have to cover. Driver Paul Goldstone estimated he was travelling at 45mph when the emergency cord was pulled.
The five female and four male jurors returned a verdict of death by misadventure.
Manual sliding doors were around for a good while, I think the last on the Underground were those on the Circle Line up to about 1950. Some may remember the classic old Paris Metro trains, which lasted to the early 1980s, which had manual sliding doors, bi-parting, connected together with a bicycle chain mechanism above the doors, but were actually closed just for departure by a retrofitted air cylinder operated by the guard. It could be seen through the adjacent window that the air cylinder was withdrawn after departure, whereupon the doors could be opened, or partially so, as the Metro rumbled along, useful in Paris August heat.
I seem to remember seeing something similar on the Berlin S-Bahn in 1992.
My father remembered Underground trains running with their doors open, presumably in the 1940s or early 50s, but I very much doubt if he ever photographed it.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
"Underground Train File - Surface Stock 1933-1959" by Brian Hardy (published by Capital Transport, 2002) has a picture on page 36 of H stock running on the East London section with the doors all open. Date unspecified beyond "post war", but it can't have been later than 1954
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I remember in the '50s whilst travelling on Central Line 'standard' stock that people often moved through the train through the car end doors. When the 59/62 stock arrived they had detector switches on the door handle that probably alerted the driver or guard that a door had been opened.
WestAnglian
Member
TfL seems particularly sensitive about this. When LO took over the Liverpool Street to Cheshunt, Enfield Town and Chingford lines the class 317 units had such signs attached to interconnecting doors within the units. These doors were fitted with bellows and had been used safely for 30 years. They also took the toilets out of use, so I suppose there was less incentive to move between cars.
I was referring to the 59/62 stock having the detectors when they were introduced, stopping the practice of walking through.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
I think you’re misremembering to be honest. There’s no record or reference of these as @4069 has already mentioned.
bramling
Veteran Member
Definitely didn’t have anything. The only detection would be the distinctive slam noise if someone used them, which is still the case today on those fleets which have the doors. If heard by staff then there can often be some action, which leads people to thinking the door might be alarmed.
OK, maybe my long memory is flawed in what I assumed was fitted. I certainly didn't actually open one, - that I left to others.