Fixed rosters, such as "Early", "Late", or "Mixed", whereby drivers do a limited range of start times on duties appropriate to their own link. Only 5 depots across the entire combine have links IIRC.
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Dale Charman to leave LUL
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Every depot has a roster. When you first join the depot you normally go into what is called the pool. In the pool you can be given any duty and find out those duties a week in advance. Eventually when a vacancy becomes available you join the roster and you can effectively plan your duties for years, at least until there is a new timetable.
Most drivers join what is called a syndicate (mafia for those that know) who take over your duties and hopefully give you want you want, i.e earlies, lates, certain rest days etc.
Links are like a miniature version of the roster. There is an early link, late link and mixed link which is a mixture of early and late shifts.
The issue with the links is that once you are in, it can be very difficult to get out off. So you could be doing permanent late shifts. This is fine if you like lates but sometimes things change like having children and suddenly you need earlies. Most people want to be in the early link but it’s often filled with the senior drivers. I’ve had drivers leave my depot because they were stuck in a link and moved elsewhere to get more flexibility.
Links are not common in most train crew depots.
I believe it's Cockfosters, Arnos Grove, Acton Town (District), Earls Court and Morden
Trainfan2019
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Was great to see Dale's front cab video of his final journey driving a London Underground train. Recommend it for really interesting commentary.
Egg Centric
Established Member
Dear God, that last couple of shift videos is a painful watch. What on earth is going on at TfL that everyone's that pissed off at everyone else?
ScottGallagher
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Shame hes decided to move on, always thought his videos were very interesting, and he commentates very well good luck to him in whatever he does next.
That’s not the widespread reality.
announcements
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I do think some of his videos were a little on the long/repetitive side, and I also found the merchandise a little cringe, however I did really like his relaxed manner and he comes across as a decent guy. All the best to him in his new job.
A generation ago I knew a train crew manager on the Picc who, as part of his career development process, undertook a study of sickness absence on the Picc. He identified a direct correlation between higher absence rates and shifts involving Arnos Grove/Acton workings, which are predominantly underground. Uxbridge/LHR to Cockfosters shifts had more overground running and were less prone to absence. Always thought that was interesting.
Central
Member
There’s also those who preferred nights alternated between nights and rest day covers,don’t know if this has changed with night tube.
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When I was working in the control tower at SMD it was always the same faces doing dead lates.
announcements
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Wouldn't it just be better if the depots upfront allocated based on preferences, assuming an even split between those who prefer earlies and those who prefer lates? Why keep allocating people an even distribution when they are always going to end up swapping them through syndicates? Then you have more administration burden of administering the swaps when you could have allocated them accordingly in the first place.
bramling
Veteran Member
The problem is there doesn’t tend to be an even split, generally more people prefer early turns, and there are also subsets who prefer middle turns, and also some who prefer a mixture. The waters get further muddied when you include preferences for rest days.
That said, LU could try harder on all this. LU’s attitude to staff is very much “we pay you, you’re lucky to be here, so suck it up”. Unfortunately that attitude doesn’t really wash, and if it once did then it doesn’t now - LU still receives a lot of applicants, but it doesn’t get such a high number who can actually fulfil the roles.
It’s getting to the point where the response to the quip above is “do one, you’re lucky to have someone who can actually do this job, now leave off”. TFL is a pretty dysfunctional workplace.
Weirdly, one of the new proposals within the 4DW was allowing prospective train ops to select a line whilst waiting for training, with the understanding that their selection could mean a longer wait to start training. But a line is not particularly useful - imaging living in north London and selecting Northern Line hoping you get High Barnet, but getting Morden! It's ridiculous and typical of LU.
Reminder that another proposal is to hold new train ops to their given depot for 5 years. That's 5 years of potentially travelling from one end of a line to another, plus longer working days meaning 12 or more hours out of the house.
It makes you wonder why they didn't just offer training based on a Train Crew Accommodation location.
Having watched those final shift ones (before I saw your comment) I would tend to agree, something seemed to have upset him and it sadly showed. By contrast his final day cab video was excellent and it was good to have that, presumably with TFL's sanction, before he left.
Peterborough?! That's a heck of a commute - do many drivers tend to live outside of London? How does that work with very early/late patterns, do they have to drive in their car to and from the depot (after a long day driving trains)? Or do LU drivers tend to take public transport or cycle to work?
bramling
Veteran Member
It isn’t uncommon for LU drivers to live fairly far out. The Peterborough route has always been fairly popular, as it has for many years had some very early and late GN trains which allow virtually the full range of shifts to be worked, with people using their cars to fill in if and where necessary. The less reliable nature of GTR services may mean this is now less popular than in the past.
I’d say LU was always a mix of people living in London combined with those from the Home Counties and slightly further afield. This mix I think is starting to shift a bit, with lower numbers from the Home Counties. One reason for this is that TFL just isn’t seen as the attractive employer that it once was. I suspect that people who might once have travelled to London and joined LU are now more likely to join a TOC, far less hassle than getting embroiled in TFL’s toxic politics.
I know a current train op who lives in Newport (Wales) and works full time, 5 days a week.
The furthest afield I knew was a night tube train op who lived in a village outside York, obviously that was 2 nights a week, but evidently thought it was worth it.
GraphitProjekt
Member
I got the impression from some of his videos that Dale may have intended to join a local TOC suggesting he moved out to Peterborough possibly living closer to London earlier on. But for personal reasons that didn't happen.
Interesting that the GN outer suburban routes used to be good enough to rely on them for this. I swear most TOC job listings say you have to live within an hour of the booking on point with public transport explicitly banned.
Recently, I did once see a guy in some kind of LU uniform get off the train as far out as Stowmarket - the GA guard seemed to know him personally .
Interesting that the GN outer suburban routes used to be good enough to rely on them for this. I swear most TOC job listings say you have to live within an hour of the booking on point with public transport explicitly banned.
Recently, I did once see a guy in some kind of LU uniform get off the train as far out as Stowmarket - the GA guard seemed to know him personally .
godfreycomplex
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There's another former T/Op (I forget his name but he uploads to YouTube under the name "it's just an idea") who, I believed, lived in Swansea.
Have also heard tell of at least one in Glasgow, although that may have been control room/management staff.
Hotels near to booking on points tend to do fairly good business.
Very interesting , thank you. Fair play to the Train Ops that manage those commutes - personally I don't think I could even hack driving tube trains all day, let alone with those sorts of commutes on top!
My dad was a driver for many years on the Tube and then a depot controller. He commuted in by car often from Leighton Buzzard to Neasden and Stanmore. This was entirely common and he had work friends who did come from Peterborough and Huntingdon.
Indeed, it isn’t particularly an uncommon journey, and whilst far in distance the journey time to Zone 1 is only a couple of minutes longer than someone who lives in Uxbridge, for instance.
I’ve worked with people who live in Yorkshire, Devon, and two people from Ireland (although they all had accommodation in London!) On trains side through the Mafia/syndicate system it’s quite easy to get a shift pattern that works well for it, with people often preferring a 10 days on/4 days off, starting with a very late start on day 1 (one place I worked I seem to remember a few duties that booked on after 18:00) and then finishing on day 10 with a dead early snip turn that finished before 09:00, and then getting to spend 5 nights at home.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
I find it interesting that, although there's very strict limits on the number of hours you can drive a train, time spent driving a road vehicle doesn't count at all.
Just an observation really.
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
About the most impressive commute I ever came across was an LT guard (remember them ?) , who one serious disruption day and had only got as far as St Albans and who asked to use the internal phone , rang his TCS and reported that he had only got as far as that ! (he had travelled from Portsmouth - the TCS kindly let him off and he was told to go home - the turn had somehow been covered) , so we made him some tea and wished him well. Heroic !
GraphitProjekt
Member
How did he manage to come from Portsmouth to St Albans but miss London on the way?
Central
Member
Used to be a depot office assistant at Morden Depot who came from Peterborough and a permanent night train maintainer at Golders Green who came from the IoW.
I was wondering the same thing
The Isle of Wight, every day?