prosecution threat after not presenting a railcard due to app not working

gembercannelle said:

Out of curiosity, how does one supposed to do that, if the app intentionally prohibits screenshots?... not everyone has access to a second phone.

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CharlieSpotted said:

It seems to me that the industry needs to agree to either:

1. Allow the taking of screenshots of railcards in official apps, and accept the consequent risk of fraud, or
2. Remove the requirement to provide a 'copy' of the railcard as proof that one is held, and provide some other method of proving that a railcard is held.

It seems such an obvious disconnect that's happening here, and something that is surely solveable.

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driverd said:

Cross countrys website outlines (in accordance with their railcard policy) that you "if you cannot produce your Railcard for the ticket inspector, you'll need to pay for a full-price ticket or be liable for a penalty fare

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driverd said:

Sadly we're dealing here with antiquated legislation that is far more applicable to physical tickets. The rules around etickets need some work.

Anyway, it may be possible to go down the incorrect procedure route. Cross countrys website outlines (in accordance with their railcard policy) that you "if you cannot produce your Railcard for the ticket inspector, you'll need to pay for a full-price ticket or be liable for a penalty fare".

Were you given this option? If not, then procedure was not followed.

See: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...ged-for-a-new-ticket-can-i-apply-for-a-refund

As written and verbal information provided by the company before ticket purchase forms part of your contract (as per consumer rights act), you'd be in a situation where the non-procedure (assuming you didn't opt not to buy a new ticket) violates the consumer rights act.

Just my thoughts - I'd escalate to customer services/ombudsman or let them take it to court. Why? Because its absolutely non-sensical and from experience working with prosecution teams, its not unheard of for judges to employ some common sense and throw this sort of thing out (which will likely make them hesitant about actually taking it to court). You had a railcard, it was an app issue, you should have been offered the opportunity to pay for a full price ticket and subsequently have it refunded.

Appreciate this isn't necessarily the answer you wanted but, at this stage, I'd explore all options.

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Watershed said:

They are also required to prevent screenshots, where permitted by the operating system.

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gembercannelle said:

Out of curiosity, how does one supposed to do that, if the app intentionally prohibits screenshots?... not everyone has access to a second phone.

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Crithylum said:

They aren't even a penalty fare operator

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gembercannelle said:

Out of curiosity, how does one supposed to do that, if the app intentionally prohibits screenshots?... not everyone has access to a second phone.

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DiscoSteve said:

there's you answer NEVER do digital on this one, always have a physical railcard - even though I always buy my london tickets on trainline, I still insisted on a physical railcard

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Haywain said:

You need to take a photo of it with another phone then.

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Watershed said:

Legally speaking, if you're unable to show a Railcard to support your Railcard discounted ticket, you are travelling without a valid ticket. If you board a train without a valid ticket (i.e. you would have been unable to show your Railcard at that time) you are committing an offence under Byelaw 18 of the Railway Byelaws.

The train company does not need to prove that you avoided the fare, or even had any intention of doing so, to successfully bring a Byelaw 18 prosecution. It's like speeding, where it doesn't matter whether it is accidental - you are deemed guilty just through the action of ticketless boarding.

As such you're not in a particularly strong position to negotiate and from the train company's perspective, they are being 'generous' by letting you off if you retrospectively show your Railcard, let alone giving you extra time to do so. They have 6 months from the date of the incident to bring a prosecution, which is why they won't allow the process to be strung out for too long.

I sympathise with your frustration and I think the powers the train companies have in these kinds of situations are disproportionate, but you have to recognise that legally speaking they are in the right and work on that basis.

I would focus on trying all avenues to get the proof of Railcard purchase. It is very unfortunate that you deleted your emails - you will appreciate that this is exactly the kind of thing that someone who hadn't actually bought a Railcard might say. That said, I would have thought the screenshot of the Railcard website showing your Railcard details should be accepted as it states your name and the expiry date, from which it is obvious whether or not it was valid on the day of travel.

I would focus on getting RDG (who operate the Railcard website that you appear to have used) to process your Subject Access Request. They have a month to comply with it, which I appreciate might be too long anyway. They can't extend it to two months unless it is a "complex" request. I can't see how that would be the case here so they should really be providing a response within that period.

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robbeech said:

Any reasonable train operating company or third party company acting on behalf of them would use the details you have provided to see that a rail card was held at the time. Unless the person reviewing this case has never seen a railcard before and has zero understanding of the job they’re being paid to do (which is unlikely, though not impossible on the railway in 2026) they WILL know and be able to deduce that you did indeed have a valid railcard at the time you were stopped.

As this is not a reasonable company we can safely assume they are being deliberately difficult in an attempt to extract money from you, as is the sole purpose of their contract with the train operating company.

Whilst this is unhelpful to you it should alert you to their attitude which in turn should allow you to tailor your response accordingly.

I do find the concept of running out of space for emails to the point that emails from less than a year ago have to be deleted a little challenging. Perhaps you get more emails than I do, but either way it’s clear that this will contribute substantially to your problems.

As @Watershed says above, you’re not in a strong starting position so you’ll need to be careful how you respond. I suspect the best result you can hope for is a bill for the full undiscounted fare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2026 ==


They can, but it’s not in their interest to check it if they can go through the passenger’s travel history and send them an out of court settlement for the undiscounted fare for every single journey they have ever made which I suspect will be what they try to do.

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moon_pie said:

Well now it's too late because it has expired.

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Haywain said:

Does that prevent the Railcard being viewed?

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gembercannelle said:

1. I am not sure which app the OP uses, but if the same info is available via a website, including the railcard data, it should be absolutely possible to make a screenshot of this info. There is no technology a website can use to prevent screenshot capture.
2. Depending on the bank/building society in question, OP could request a copy of the statement printed, stamped, and signed in a branch, or a copy of the statement delivered to a UK address. All banks offer this facility for the purpose of visa applications. ITAL, or a train company, can verify directly with the financial institution independently that such a document was issued. (All correspondence has unique ID).
3. I believe that email has been accidentally erased to clear up inbox. Some providers offer rather limited space and some people tend to send huge emails: a friend of mine sent me by email a 12Mb video of his dog training

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DiscoSteve said:

there's you answer NEVER do digital on this one, always have a physical railcard - even though I always buy my london tickets on trainline, I still insisted on a physical railcard

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driverd said:

Sadly we're dealing here with antiquated legislation that is far more applicable to physical tickets. The rules around etickets need some work.

Anyway, it may be possible to go down the incorrect procedure route. Cross countrys website outlines (in accordance with their railcard policy) that you "if you cannot produce your Railcard for the ticket inspector, you'll need to pay for a full-price ticket or be liable for a penalty fare".

Were you given this option? If not, then procedure was not followed.

See: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...ged-for-a-new-ticket-can-i-apply-for-a-refund

As written and verbal information provided by the company before ticket purchase forms part of your contract (as per consumer rights act), you'd be in a situation where the non-procedure (assuming you didn't opt not to buy a new ticket) violates the consumer rights act.

Just my thoughts - I'd escalate to customer services/ombudsman or let them take it to court. Why? Because its absolutely non-sensical and from experience working with prosecution teams, its not unheard of for judges to employ some common sense and throw this sort of thing out (which will likely make them hesitant about actually taking it to court). You had a railcard, it was an app issue, you should have been offered the opportunity to pay for a full price ticket and subsequently have it refunded.

Appreciate this isn't necessarily the answer you wanted but, at this stage, I'd explore all options.

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Tetchytyke said:

The problem here is that you are having to deal with ITAL. You would have more luck talking to a brick wall. My cat has puked up hairballs with more intelligence than the ITAL prosecutions administrators.

I would suggest emailing ITAL one last time, copying in CrossCountry's customer relations team. This needs to be in words of one syllable: you had a railcard on the date, here is evidence of the railcard expiring after the date you were stopped, here is a bank statement corroborating the information from the Railcard website. ITAL may not see sense but hopefully XC customer relations might.

There is no reason why the screenshot from the Railcard website should not be accepted. All the details that are needed are there: the customer name, email address, Railcard number, and Railcard expiry date.

If you go into "profile" at the top of the screen, you will also see an option for "my orders." Go into there and you can display all your previous orders.

View attachment 210243

(NB mine show £0.00 paid because I always use Tesco Clubcard vouchers to buy mine)

You therefore have one screenshot showing when you bought the Railcard and one screenshot showing when it expired. You'd hope that even ITAL's highly trained and intelligent administrators would be able to understand that.

Also worth noting that XC have a specific FAQ on this matter https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.u...ged-for-a-new-ticket-can-i-apply-for-a-refund:

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WesternLancer said:

The op should avoid the risk of it escalating to court in my view.

They should do this with a well worded response to the e mail they have received based on the advice they have received here with a draft checked by experts here before it is sent.
@moon_pie doyou now have the information required for you to create such a draft.
I’m mindful the clock is ticking on this.

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moon_pie said:

Good advice but normally I do have it in the app on previous phones. Unfortunately the only time I didn't have my railcard on the app itself was the time the inspector came.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2026 ==


Thank you. Yes it is true I was never given this option. I think it's because we had arrived at our stop so she quickly handed me the form to fill in before getting off. I will try going down this route if all else fails

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2026 ==


Very true on the hairballs, there is a special place in you know where for these people. I will do this exact thing once they respond to my latest email as I don't want to push them. I asked for another extension and they responded to say they are reviewing my case. Also good trick to use the tesco clubcard vouchers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Aug 2026 ==


I have asked ITAL for an extension on the deadline, and emailed RDG in the meantime as another user advised, to see if they can speed up the subject access request processing. ITAL got back to say they are currently reviewing the case, so I will wait to see what they say before firing off with another response. I will absolutely follow your advice though once they get back to me and will post here to update.

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moon_pie said:

Well, they are not getting a single penny from me! I am ready to take these thieves to court.. though I hope it won't come to that because enough of my time has already been wasted. I was shocked to find the screenshot of the active railcard AND bank transaction was not sufficient for them, I know they are being deliberately difficult and it's times like these that I wish that Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B from the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy was real

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moon_pie said:

Yep. This is all I can see, same on the app

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