Can City Thameslink be next please?
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Could City Thameslink open on Sundays?
- Thread starter Russel
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Can City Thameslink be next please?
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dk1
Veteran Member
In any location other than London it would be ludicrous to have a railway station with over 7 million annual entry/exits closed on any day even if its main market is commuters. It serves a very busy tourist area too
dk1
Veteran Member
I thought that occurred at Farringdon. Is it different in either direction?
dk1
Veteran Member
Was always Farringdon Southbound.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
bramling
Veteran Member
It’s quite revealing that even when it’s open on Saturdays the station is conspicuously dead, as is the surrounding area.
One wonders that it only really exists at all as a quirk of history essentially as a replacement for Holborn Viaduct. Being a stone throw from Blackfriars and Farringdon, and with both St Paul’s and Chancery Lane (the latter also very quiet on Sundays) nearby, I’d actually be tempted to suggest that it could quite easily close altogether, and speed up every Thameslink journey by a couple of minutes.
dk1
Veteran Member
Possibly but several decent size cities in the UK don’t come close to the 7.6m entry/exits this station receives.
bramling
Veteran Member
If it was anywhere else we’d be saying that people could quite happily walk a couple of hundred yards, as that’s essentially all it is from Farringdon or Blackfriars, and for those who won’t or can’t walk there’s buses galore.
Different if the station was an interchange to the Central Line, but it isn’t. I guess one accidental role it does serve is avoiding the cramped platforms at Farringdon being more loaded than they are, but at a cost of a couple of minutes to *every* Thameslink journey.
If it was down to me I’d close it!
dk1
Veteran Member
Good job it isn’t then
If you can’t close stations like Shippea Hill and Teeside Airport I think it’s safe to say we‘ll see City Thameslink for a few generations yet.As inconvenient as adding an extra change in may be to some, Crossrail's made it even less useful for connections, as changing at Farringdon and again at Tottenham Court Road or Liverpool Street's an option for the Central line (and changing at Blackfriars for Bank/Monument or St. Pancras for Holborn / Piccadilly line).
It’s there to, essentially, spread the load away from Blackfriars and especially Farringdon. Many of my City-working friends use City TL simply because it is quieter than the other two, and slightly easier to get to the City by walking / cycling.
But it is absolutely dead at weekends. The only time I use it on Saturdays is if heading somewhere towards Covent Garden, as it is an easy walk or bus trip from the Ludgate entrance.
To answer the OP - it costs quite a bit to open, as a subsurface station with two entrances (both need to be open when the station is for evac purposes) and several escalators. There’s simply no point on Sundays whedemand is lower and the few passengers who do want the immediate environs can be easily accommodated at Blackfriars and/or Farringdon (which they can’t in the week on normal circumstances).
But it is absolutely dead at weekends. The only time I use it on Saturdays is if heading somewhere towards Covent Garden, as it is an easy walk or bus trip from the Ludgate entrance.
To answer the OP - it costs quite a bit to open, as a subsurface station with two entrances (both need to be open when the station is for evac purposes) and several escalators. There’s simply no point on Sundays whedemand is lower and the few passengers who do want the immediate environs can be easily accommodated at Blackfriars and/or Farringdon (which they can’t in the week on normal circumstances).
I remember going for a drink on Fleet Street on a weeknight a year or so ago and being surprised to find City Thameslink closed at 11pm.
It does seem a bit of a throwback to the days when stations like Cannon Street and Chancery Lane were closed on Sunday, but while much of the City is a bit livelier these days, the Holborn Viaduct area is still pretty dead at weekends.
It does seem a bit of a throwback to the days when stations like Cannon Street and Chancery Lane were closed on Sunday, but while much of the City is a bit livelier these days, the Holborn Viaduct area is still pretty dead at weekends.
dk1
Veteran Member
In some contrast I remember going on holiday with my parents in the early 80s and we stopped off around Liverpool Street on a weekend looking for a pub en-route to Gatwick and it was so difficult to find one open. That is no longer the case with plenty of choice and areas often buzzing unless you head over towards Moorgate.
Helvellyn
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Of course, when built whilst it was partly a replacement for Holborn Viaduct it was also futureproofed to be an interchange with Ludgate Curcus - a planned station on the original Jubilee Line Phase 2 extension. That, of course, was changed to run via Waterloo and London Bridge instead.
Class15
Established Member
Absolutely not. Imagine Farringdon and Blackfriars overcrowding in the peaks!
Helvellyn
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Of course, if the changeover from DC to AC failed the unit then shuts into the sidings under the old Smithfield Market to avoid blocking the line for Northbound trains.
The Southbound changeover from AC to DC at Farringdon used to allow for a shunt to Moorgate if that failed. Now I presume it's line blocked with a complicated shunt move ECS to City Thameslink, then cross over and into the sidings under the market adding to delays.
swt_passenger
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The sidings only hold 8 cars as you are probably aware, so the reason the changeover is attempted at the first opportunity in either direction is that 12 car trains can still run on AC or DC as applicable to the next station and reverse from there. Basically it provides an advance warning to drivers and signallers that the train must now reverse, before it goes too far to sort out.
AIUI a southbound failure can still take passengers through to City T/L because there’s more space on the platform there to empty a full train. In the northbound direction a failure would still normally be emptied at City T/L.
Very few people live in the City of London, and about half of them are in the Barbican.
Prior to financial services deregulation in 1986 the City was dead from about 2100 on weekdays and at weekends. It is nowhere near as quiet now as it used to be.
There is a bit of tourism, especially to St Pauls Cathedral, for which City Thameslink is very convenient.
I agree, City Thameslink is much better equipped for peak time commuters than either Blackfriars or Farringdon. The St Pancras end of Farringdon would be a nightmare if City Thameslink was closed.
Mikey C
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Not now. I regularly change trains between the new Bank entrance and Cannon Street NR on Saturdays, and there are loads of people milling around, sightseeing and drinking in the City. Even in the winter, it's no longer deserted.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
City Thameslink is only really needed because Blackfriars as it was (and probably still now) would really struggle to cope with passenger numbers if it wasn't there. So the money can be saved by just directing people to Blackfriars on quiet Sundays, I guess. It's 5 minutes walk (0.2 miles) - that's barely far enough apart for a couple of bus stops! 
I guess similar to the reason why we need both Leicester Square and Covent Garden (also 0.2 miles), or Mornington Crescent and Camden Town (0.4 miles).
I guess similar to the reason why we need both Leicester Square and Covent Garden (also 0.2 miles), or Mornington Crescent and Camden Town (0.4 miles).