Goldfish62
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
- Thread starter WWTownEnth
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Many thanks indeed for this updated information - most useful. But I am a bit worried about the fact that they still carry their pantographs and I wonder if they are still configured for AC operation ?
norbitonflyer
Established Member
I would guess they can operate on DC as well, like classes 377, 700 and 717
w11_supremecy
Member
I get that. All I was doing was just providing some context as to why NSWonderer knowingly called them 459s. It’s what they are mostly known as/referred to within the company.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
Only by train crew if I am correct. They were/are diagrammed stock wise as 458's, both 4 and 5 car, even when both have been in service simultaneously (as 458/0 and 458/5).
I believe a computer quirk would not allow '458/5' to be shown on crew schedule cards (too many digits), which crew side may have requested during the first rebuilding period from /0 to/5. If correct it may have been the reason someone came up with using '459' as a get around. Stock diagrams (as issued to everyone concerned back then) didn't suffer from this, with '458/5' (or whichever) being shown in full in the heading for each and every diagram. CWN's and ACWN's have always referred to 458, either in 4 or 8, or 5 or 10 car, with no reference to the sub class - no need, as the number of cars made it clear enough.
w11_supremecy
Member
You are correct, those are the understandable reasons why 459 was conjured up. But again, I was simply trying to provide some context, as there was some confusion as to whether there was a typo in the original post. I am well aware of this. This is going off topic now so I’ll leave it there.
Class 701s were designed for easy conversion from DC to AC operation and the original units were therefore fitted up and tested for AC mode, but I don't think they are regarded as dual-voltage units.
Perhaps a driver or technical person on this forum can confirm - are they actually all fitted with DC and AC equipment and do they have the required changeover equipment in the cab ?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Not an answer from a driver but based on what I have read about other classes the technical answer is, I suspect, the majority of 701s are lacking the pantograph and also the transformer (usually units like that have a concrete block in the same place to keep the weight distribution correct). I suspect the ability to invoke AC operation is either a blanked off switch or a missing option in the software version as appropriate.
I recall 707s had pantographs on the first (two ?) of them and had to be tested as such on DC and AC.
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
None of which implies that a 701 fitted with a pantograph would be unable to work on DC, which is what the original question was asking.
I may be misremebering, but I thinkl I recall seeing a 707 with a (lowered) pantograph operating on DC
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Sorry. I had lost track of where the original question started from.
I expect once delivered the relevant switch will be blanked off. Or more likely these days its a software option and the version of the software already used by all the 701s that are DC only will be loaded. So therefore the unit will, even if it has a pantograph, very likely look in the cab and behave just like a DC only unit with the driver not being confronted with extra options. But remember I am not a driver.
A similar thing with the ETCS 197s. Those that are fitted with ETCS BUT are currently running as normal 197s I believe have the bits that give the choice blanked off so the driver does not have to know how to switch off the ETCS. They will be slightly different to normal 197s when the ETCS is enabled (at depot) and then there will be a difference that drivers have to deal with.
Like you I vaguely recall seeing one or two 707s with a pantograph in Clapham Yard. Possibly before being passed for service and while wandering off to AC land for tests. The tests were to prove the design could work on AC - that was for the benefit of the owner of the units (future proofed).
Of course the big issue with keeping the pantograph is if it has a brush with low hanging branches. I would never have considered this risk until a 93 came to grief just recently on SWR. I think while leaving Wimbledon depot for Derby with 701510 !.
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Roylang
Member
There is a photo on Flickr of 707001/707002 operating on AC at Biggleswade.
Roy
Roy
Gag Halfrunt
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707001 20170920 Biggleswade
707001 + 707002 power north out of the darkness at 02:08, as they pass Biggleswade on an overnight test-run, 5Q97 00:15 Wimbledon to Peterborough. Intended for use on 3rd-rail DC routes, this is part of an overhead-AC test programme for the Class 707 fleet, and I understand that only the first...
www.flickr.com
NSEWonderer
Established Member
There is no changeover equipment in the cab. The wiring and other equipment minus pantograph and transformer still exist however as mentioned above for ease of conversion.
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
Fully understand and no offence intended on my part. Just adding some clarity having been involved with them from day one.
WWTownEnth
Member
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Seven in service units have not been allocated to diagrams this morning:
002
010
019
020
022
025
038
Plus, of course, 028 and 029 which are yet to enter passenger service.
That makes 51 in service this morning I think.
002
010
019
020
022
025
038
Plus, of course, 028 and 029 which are yet to enter passenger service.
That makes 51 in service this morning I think.
701019 is allocated in the evening peak, starting with 2V41.
701020 is allocated to 5Y99 Clapham Yard to Wimbledon Depot but this doesn't appear to have run yet according to RTT.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I have been checking and this week I have not yet found via RTT any paths for deliveries as yet.
I think they are usually in the system(s) by now.
I think they are usually in the system(s) by now.
WWTownEnth
Member
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It may be possible that there is no more room, at least until the remaining 458/4s are put into dry store.
701/5 Dispossition 24.08.26 and the 701029 Mystery:
At 1130 today (Monday 24.08.26):
701015 and 701025 were in seperate 8 car roads in Wimbledon Park Top Yard, 701517 + 701519 coupled were standing on a longer road in the Top Yard next to the cleaning shed. [These two were nowhere to be seen last week - possibly come from Farnham ?]
701526 was in the sidings behind East Wimbledon Depot (by the entrance gate) with 701022/38 and 458530/533 for company. 701526 is said to be coupled to 509, but this can not be seen, so unable to confirm.
On the "Commissioning Road" inside East Wimbledon Depot was 701505 coupled to another (which must be 701514, which it arrived with). 701516 was on another road inside, by it'self (this was in Top Yard last week, so something is happening !):
There was no sign of 701511+507 which were on the commissioning road last week - they may possibly have been inside Wimbledon Park cleaning shed, or probably more likely gone to Farnham?
At Clapham Yard at around 1230: 701528+529 were in their usual spot. Inside the cleaning shed was 701512 coupled to another (unidentified). On another road inside the shed was another 701/5 which was too dark to identify, but as I observed 701520 ran into the shed in front of this one (and presumably coupled up). 701503 coupled to another was in an outside road.
701028 was in the yard not doing anything:
At about 1245, 701029 ran through ECS on the Windsor side (probably on a 5Qxx working), as it did not stop and there appeared to be only one man in the cab, I suspect this was testing or "shake down" rather than training - the training trips usually stop and go through the door process. About an hour later 701029 ran back ECS from Waterloo to Clapham Yard and I noticed that virtually every wheel on the entire unit was maked up with white paint ("wheel clocked" I beleive is the term for this). This is usually done to check for tyre movement (ie: suspected or confirmed Shifted Tyres). Might this be the reason for it not entering passenger service yet ?
Shifted tyres are a serious safety concern - if a tyre can shift (through overheating, faulty fitting, or whatever) there is a chance that it could come off completely which would almost certainly cause derailment.
At 1130 today (Monday 24.08.26):
701015 and 701025 were in seperate 8 car roads in Wimbledon Park Top Yard, 701517 + 701519 coupled were standing on a longer road in the Top Yard next to the cleaning shed. [These two were nowhere to be seen last week - possibly come from Farnham ?]
701526 was in the sidings behind East Wimbledon Depot (by the entrance gate) with 701022/38 and 458530/533 for company. 701526 is said to be coupled to 509, but this can not be seen, so unable to confirm.
On the "Commissioning Road" inside East Wimbledon Depot was 701505 coupled to another (which must be 701514, which it arrived with). 701516 was on another road inside, by it'self (this was in Top Yard last week, so something is happening !):
There was no sign of 701511+507 which were on the commissioning road last week - they may possibly have been inside Wimbledon Park cleaning shed, or probably more likely gone to Farnham?
At Clapham Yard at around 1230: 701528+529 were in their usual spot. Inside the cleaning shed was 701512 coupled to another (unidentified). On another road inside the shed was another 701/5 which was too dark to identify, but as I observed 701520 ran into the shed in front of this one (and presumably coupled up). 701503 coupled to another was in an outside road.
701028 was in the yard not doing anything:
At about 1245, 701029 ran through ECS on the Windsor side (probably on a 5Qxx working), as it did not stop and there appeared to be only one man in the cab, I suspect this was testing or "shake down" rather than training - the training trips usually stop and go through the door process. About an hour later 701029 ran back ECS from Waterloo to Clapham Yard and I noticed that virtually every wheel on the entire unit was maked up with white paint ("wheel clocked" I beleive is the term for this). This is usually done to check for tyre movement (ie: suspected or confirmed Shifted Tyres). Might this be the reason for it not entering passenger service yet ?
Shifted tyres are a serious safety concern - if a tyre can shift (through overheating, faulty fitting, or whatever) there is a chance that it could come off completely which would almost certainly cause derailment.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks for that. I would say 701029 might be in the final stages of testing (it has had long enough to get everything ironed out ?).
Obviously attention must be turning to the 701/5s and your report suggests so.
WWTownEnth
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Any bets on which 701/5s will enter service first, and when?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I reckon September but as to which ones.....
Which September or which unit?
It doesn't look likely any will enter passenger service this year.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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You have inside information to be able to make that statement?
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Four months to go so I feel it would be odd if it took that long. That is unless there is something we do not know like a strange technical problem exclusive to five car 701s. Perhaps union acceptance of a missing gangway connection between coaches five and six !. That sort of thing ?.Which September or which unit?
It doesn't look likely any will enter passenger service this year.
Wednesday...
5Q87 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs
5Q87 1000 Derby Litchurch Lane to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks, load 600 tonnes looks like up to a pair and with brakes working ?.
WWTownEnth
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Six in service units not allocated to diagrams this morning.
002
010
016
020
025
038
When taken with the still to debut 028 and 029 that suggests 52 701 diagrams today. Maybe a new record?
002
010
016
020
025
038
When taken with the still to debut 028 and 029 that suggests 52 701 diagrams today. Maybe a new record?
Siemens Staines
Established Member
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- 1,478
701027 & 701040 are not in service this morning either are they?
I make it 50 701s in passenger service this morning (assuming 701022 works 2J92 later) for their 53 booked diagrams, which is 1 fewer than yesterday. The three outstanding diagrams are two 2*458/4 (2C03 and 2U09) and one 2*450 (2M03). The last morning that 701s covered all of their booked diagrams remains Monday 15.06.25 (when there were 48 diagrams), which was the last of the seven weekdays on this summer timetable that occurred.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
52 units in service has been acheived seven times so far, first on 29th July and then on 3, 4, 5, 6, 21 August, and then again yesterday.