Is Great Northern potentially “false advertising” First Class?

TT-ONR-NRN said:

Got it, so I assume when the final 379s do enter service the last 387s will be removed from Cambridge fasts. Good to know.

I’m mainly interested because it must be such a lottery for first class passengers. While I appreciate many people find the 379s an upgrade in standard, it’s subjective as they do offer the same facilities — 2+2 seating, armrests, tables, plugs, air-con, Wi-Fi. But the 387 and 379 First Class product is objectively a very very different offering.

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Having written the above in this thread:

It got me thinking.
The Great Northern website has this on its First Class information page:

What are the main benefits of First Class?
First Class provides more spacious seating, quieter carriages, and a more comfortable travel experience.

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Now, objectively, this is true for the 379s, which feature wider (pretty huge), reclining 2+1 armchair style seats. It’s technically true for their services operated by 700s too — although debatable as the same experience is available for Standard class travellers who sit at the compartment at the other end.

But they still have 15 387s that still operate a fair chunk of Cambridge semis, Peterborough peaks, and even a couple of Cambridge/Kings Lynn fasts, and these have identical first class carriages (seats, pitch, legroom, layout) to the standard class carriages. So can GN rightfully say that first class offers more spacious seating, really?

I think a lot of first class is missold, mainly because operators rely on some vague finger wagging at the word 'complimentary' while also using such aspects of their service to promote their product.

Not enough people take it as far as court though so...

If it was a guaranteed 379, I may consider a few pounds extra for a first class advance single. But I won't pay a pence extra if there is a chance of a 387. May be interesting to try to claim back the difference from customer service if served a 387.

Southern's First Class has pretty much always just been the same seats but with antimacassars - does first class on Great Northern rolling stock actually net you better seats/tables, or just more chance of getting a seat?

Recessio said:

Southern's First Class has pretty much always just been the same seats but with antimacassars - does first class on Great Northern rolling stock actually net you better seats/tables, or just more chance of getting a seat?

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I've sat in first by mistake on a 387 for about a minute before realising. It's not terribly well-posted on some of the units (?) and they don't always remember to put the silly bit of fabric.

Recessio said:

Southern's First Class has pretty much always just been the same seats but with antimacassars - does first class on Great Northern rolling stock actually net you better seats/tables, or just more chance of getting a seat?

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The 379s have a significant better first, better seats and more space. As things stand at the moment the Fen Line services are a mix of 387 and 379, hence why some people are making an issue about it.

Whether the 379s remain like this is another matter, I suspect the only reason they have is because no one has wanted to spend any money reconfiguring them. That in itself is a bit of a problem as in terms of space taken up, there’s some level of overprovision of first on the 379s.

One wonders how long first will survive on TSGN anyway. It’s an increasing outlier in the south-east now.

styles said:

I think a lot of first class is missold, mainly because operators rely on some vague finger wagging at the word 'complimentary' while also using such aspects of their service to promote their product.

Not enough people take it as far as court though so...

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You should try my line - the North Downs! The provision of first class has been on and off so many times in the last several years that I don't think even the staff know what is happening. They certainly don't enforce it. I know because I am willing to bet that school children don't have first class tickets yet often still sit there, and I have heard passengers sitting close to me in first buying tickets from the guard for standard class and remaining sitting in first afterwards!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Monday at 19:38 ==

bramling said:

The 379s have a significant better first, better seats and more space. As things stand at the moment the Fen Line services are a mix of 387 and 379, hence why some people are making an issue about it.

Whether the 379s remain like this is another matter, I suspect the only reason they have is because no one has wanted to spend any money reconfiguring them. That in itself is a bit of a problem as in terms of space taken up, there’s some level of overprovision of first on the 379s.

One wonders how long first will survive on TSGN anyway. It’s an increasing outlier in the south-east now.

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Indeed, and the 700s are a farce with it anyway.

bramling said:

One wonders how long first will survive on TSGN anyway. It’s an increasing outlier in the south-east now.

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Complete agreed, I can see at some point "Greater Thameslink Railway" ditching 1st class completely, similar with South Eastern and using it as spin that more seats are available.