mindthegates.uk - An Interesting Site on Level Crossings

@matt1024

What is the rationale for including MSL's in the data?

By their very nature they are closed to the road at all times unless in use. Most of them only go to a single specific place or group of places where there are no viable alternatives routes.

If they are included to give an 'approximation' of times a user can cross without needing to wait, why not also include a standard UWC too?

RailwayRookie said:

@matt1024

What is the rationale for including MSL's in the data?

By their very nature they are closed to the road at all times unless in use. Most of them only go to a single specific place or group of places where there are no viable alternatives routes.

If they are included to give an 'approximation' of times a user can cross without needing to wait, why not also include a standard UWC too?

Click to expand...

Currently the test isn’t whether the road is closed, it’s whether there’s an imposed prohibition (red light for instance). MSLs lights are trigger by an approaching train and go red because a train is coming. Whether the gate is shut or not is dependent on people wanting to pass the crossing. A UWC doesn’t change state as a train approaches, so there’s nothing to predict, the way you would use the crossing remains the same.

Thats a lot of words to not answer the question.

matt1024 said:

Currently the test isn’t whether the road is closed, it’s whether there’s an imposed prohibition (red light for instance).

Click to expand...

These are the same thing, a prohibition in your data is either the barriers down or a red light, both of which mean the road is closed. You're testing for the cause and not the affect, even though they provide the same results in this case.

matt1024 said:

MSLs lights are trigger by an approaching train and go red because a train is coming.

Click to expand...

As are AHBs, AOCLs, AOCRs MCB ODs etc... in some cases MCBs with an auto lower function. Not sure why you added that.

matt1024 said:

Whether the gate is shut or not is dependent on people wanting to pass the crossing.

Click to expand...

The condition of the gates doesn't change your definition of the road being closed, the red light dictates that. If the user has opened the gates and then the light has changed, you've basically just got a temporary AOCL.


To reiterate my previous question: If the site is designed to give an indication of the expected state of the crossing to allow users to seek alternative routes and avoid delay, why include MSLs that in their majority, do not have an alternative route?

@matt1024 some corrections I can offer:
The details for level crossings on the Portsmouth Direct haven't been updated in line with the recent Farncombe to Petersfield resignalling.
Farncombe West is no longer manually supervised as the adjacent signal box has been demolished.
Milford is no longer AHB, it's now full barriers presumably CCTV monitored. Anecdotally, closure durations have increased considerably.
I think that other crossings in the Liss / Liphook area have also been converted from AHB to full barriers.

More trivial but maybe worth a mention: Tangley and Chilworth on the North Downs Line are described as on the "Reigate to Haslemere" line. The Engineer's Line Reference is RSJ, Redhill to Shalford Junction, but the junction points towards Guildford not Haslemere. No trains run between Reigate and Haslemere, which would need a reversal at Guildford, nor (afaik) have any ever done so other than occasional charters.

It's an interesting site, and hardly surprising that some corrections are needed with the large amount of data that must have gone into it.

I am afraid I just get Host Error every time I click on a level crossing

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2026 ==

Working now. I notice there are 148 Level Crossings in North West and Central, thought it would be a lot more than that

chris53 said:

Working now. I notice there are 148 Level Crossings in North West and Central, thought it would be a lot more than that

Click to expand...

There are a lot more. But most aren’t public roads.

@RailwayRookie We include MSLs because the railway actively closes them. The site shows when the next gap is and how long the wait will be, we can provide a real prediction for MSLs, same as for AHBs. Plain UWCs aren't included because nothing changes about them as a train approaches. The value of the prediction is not just in choosing whether to take an alternative route but also when to make a trip.

DelW said:

@matt1024 some corrections I can offer:
The details for level crossings on the Portsmouth Direct haven't been updated in line with the recent Farncombe to Petersfield resignalling.
Farncombe West is no longer manually supervised as the adjacent signal box has been demolished.
Milford is no longer AHB, it's now full barriers presumably CCTV monitored. Anecdotally, closure durations have increased considerably.
I think that other crossings in the Liss / Liphook area have also been converted from AHB to full barriers.

More trivial but maybe worth a mention: Tangley and Chilworth on the North Downs Line are described as on the "Reigate to Haslemere" line. The Engineer's Line Reference is RSJ, Redhill to Shalford Junction, but the junction points towards Guildford not Haslemere. No trains run between Reigate and Haslemere, which would need a reversal at Guildford, nor (afaik) have any ever done so other than occasional charters.

It's an interesting site, and hardly surprising that some corrections are needed with the large amount of data that must have gone into it.

Click to expand...

Thanks, very helpful. I've corrected the site. I get my lists of crossings from NR's registry, which can be a little out of date. I've updated Milford, Liss Common, Princes Bridge, Sheet, Kings Fernsden from AHBs to MCBOD (the published sources say seven of the nine crossings got obstacle detection and two got CCTV, without naming which, so OD is the best fit for the conversions, but it should have the correct behaviour on the site either way, the other four: Farncombe East and West, Liss, Petersfield, we already had as full barrier), this in turn increases their predicted closure duration, which should match what you've seen on the ground. Farncombe West I've left alone, the site calls it a manually-controlled barrier, which is still true now it's worked from Basingstoke. I've also updated the description on Tangley, Tangley Footpath and Chilworth.

chris53 said:

I am afraid I just get Host Error every time I click on a level crossing

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Aug 2026 ==

Working now. I notice there are 148 Level Crossings in North West and Central, thought it would be a lot more than that

Click to expand...

Apologies, ran into a issue that took longer than I hoped to fix. Everything is back to normal now.