Annetts key
Established Member
Can the ETCS just be disabled? That would be easier and cheaper than removal.
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Could the undamaged 158 vehicles from Talerddig be reformed?
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Is even that necessary? The trains run to Birmingham so must be capable of operating over non ETCS routes without any modification.
It's integrated into the unit's systems, and these are spread across the two vehicles - so turning ETCS sets into three car units is a non-starter without ripping it out first. The ETCS does get regularly used on non-fitted lines, but this would mean training drivers on what to do with it. It also extends the time it takes to set up the cab.
It can be switched off entirely, with a conventional speedo thereby activated as a backup. However you're still leaving all of the equipment in place so no forming three cars, extra training needed for the fitters, and you've got a load of surplus complexity that's just asking to go wrong.
Better to rip it out and revert the units to standard.
Annetts key
Established Member
In that case, it would be better to fit all the other units with ETCS ready to work over other ETCS fitted lines. Eventually all drivers and fitters will need to be trained up anyway
Unlikely to be worth doing for 158 at this stage in their lives. They're roughly 35 years old. By the time that ETCS fitment rolls out to somewhere 158s work they'll be due a one-way trip to China. Remember also that the Ansaldo kit used on the Cambrian scheme is non-standard.In that case, it would be better to fit all the other units with ETCS ready to work over other ETCS fitted lines. Eventually all drivers and fitters will need to be trained up anyway
Besides, with 52824 and 52841 extremely unlikely to work again, the best prospect for the 57 cars is to be sandwiched into another two car unit, which means that they'll need to lose their own ETCS capability as the centre car of a three car unit.
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Helvellyn
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Could they just be stripping the seats out of the two vehicles? It was mentioned in the EMR Regional/Connect refurbishment thread that the ex-SWT 158 needs a more comprehensive refurbishment - it has a small First Class section and retains the original style Standard Class seats. The TfW units were refurbished with the same style seats that EMT used to refurbish its units, so it'd be a good way of getting the necesseary seats to give EMR to create a standard layout unit.
CR165022
Established Member
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Unfortunately I don't have much information however, I've been told Northern could make a hybrid 158 from the undamaged 158 cars that were involved in the Wales crash in Talerddig.
If anyone has any further information please enlighten me.
If anyone has any further information please enlighten me.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Could is very far from will.
Physically could it be done? Yes, will it? No clue, people have raised on here before the issues of having different types of engines between the Welsh and Northern units.
Physically could it be done? Yes, will it? No clue, people have raised on here before the issues of having different types of engines between the Welsh and Northern units.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I forget where I read it, but I believe they have actually signed for the two undamaged vehicles (which I believe are a 52 and a 57, fortunately) and will indeed run them as one unit.
As an aside it will be interesting to see what livery it gets painted in - just some stickers on TfW red and white, Northern livery or GBR.
As an aside it will be interesting to see what livery it gets painted in - just some stickers on TfW red and white, Northern livery or GBR.
Both are 57 cars.
I believe they are going into existing 158s to form an additional two 3 car units.
TastyMaltesers
Member
That'll look a bit funny if they don't repaint them.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I stand corrected - the thing I read said it was going to form one unit. If they are both 57s I agree that makes more sense. According to AI the accessible toilet is in the 52 coach so a pair of 57s as one unit wouldn't work.
I can't for the life of me remember where, but it was something more authoritative than here or X (which I don't use any more anyway). Might have been one of the magazines but I don't keep them once read so I can't check.
The upgraded seats compared to those in any of Northern's other units will make that a nice "first class" upgrade!
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Thanks.
That was exactly what I read - though I don't buy Today's Railway so I can't remember where I saw it, but it was that article. Unless Rail or Modern Railways reported pretty much the exact same wording.
I guess if both are 52s as that says (not 57s as suggested above) you could indeed form a unit out of the two as it would have two accessible toilets, and I guess bikes could go in the second wheelchair space if that was remarked. It would be an odd one-off with slightly lower seating capacity, but as Northern don't do reservations that wouldn't really matter.
Or perhaps they indeed have decided to change the plan and add to other units since that article was written.
Jacob Porrett
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With the greatest of respect, "a Northern guard" is not a reliable source of fleet information.
All four vehicles from the set remain showing as off-lease on the system currently.
According to the RAIB report it was the 57 ends that collided. So it will be the 52 ends that will be salvaged with the PRM toilets.
Is it possible to form the train up as a 52+52 as one unit?
I don't think Machynlleth Depot is capable of taking a 3 car in the sheds as it would have been ideal for TFW to make up some 3 cars 158s.
Is it possible to form the train up as a 52+52 as one unit?
I don't think Machynlleth Depot is capable of taking a 3 car in the sheds as it would have been ideal for TFW to make up some 3 cars 158s.
Machynlleth will only be a 158 depot for a matter of months now so it's a problem that doesn't exist and really it wouldn't help TFW do they run three cars anywhere really? Not on the regular anyway
3 cars on the Cambrian coast during summer and 3 cars to Birmingham when there's often short forms to 2 cars would be a big benefit to TFW had these 2 carriages been made available earlier.
There's still talk of TFW keeping some of the 158's a bit longer.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Not sure whether tfW and Nortghern units are compatible, but I understand SWR succesfully ran trains (although not units) of classes 158/159/170 with a mixture of engines.
XCTurbostar
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Double Toilet express!
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The TfW fleet have Perkins engines. Northern have a mix of Perkins and Cummins engines on their 158s, so no incompatibility with the rest of their fleet on that score.
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
I'm not going to name names but as said person works for Northern this is good inside information so I'll take it as reliable.
Qwerty133
Established Member
Class 156/158 hybrid units also operated in the early days whilst some modifications were completed on the 158s