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Grand central apply for new routes

The Planner

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Thats the point I intended to make (but I did it badly), if ORR are relying a bit on Network Rail then that is a close, rather than purely independent relationship, because an Independent person would ignore late submissions and treat it as no objection, and move to decision, not bias or delay their decision because one side (NR) has influence


If a decision isn't made by Christmas, my other point stands, not reasonable to take 5+ months to say yes or no.
Unless a time limit is specified for a no response, I don't see how you can apply that. Its how Network Change consultations work as organisations have a mandated response date, don't reply, its a yes decision.
 
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RailUK Forums

Snow1964

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I wonder if the Waterloo application would stand a better chance if it were more like the original Regional Railways service and ran through to South Wales.
Get tfw to extend their west wales to. Bristol tm services

Maybe TfW are thinking of extending, they now have a Basingstoke station page.
Although photo needs a bit of work, single line, no third rail, jointed bullhead rail held with wooden keys, and those hills need to be flattened out if they are to represent Basingstoke area.

 

BrianW

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Maybe TfW are thinking of extending, they now have a Basingstoke station page.
Although photo needs a bit of work, single line, no third rail, jointed bullhead rail held with wooden keys, and those hills need to be flattened out if they are to represent Basingstoke area.

Perhaps someone will use a reverse image lookup programme to relocate 'Basingstoke' ? My guess would be Barmouth, just based on alphabetical proximity.

Regarding 'through' services across the border, I imagine a Plaid |Cymru government may wish to increase its 'independence'- maybe passport controls at Chepstow and Chester? or Basingstoke Parkway?
 

Deepgreen

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Oddly, this proposal popped up on the Google news feed while I was 'doom-scrolling' yesterday! I must admit I hadn't heard about it previously, but, judging by comments here, it looks 99% unlikely to succeed (and one wonders how much time and money was expended on an always-doomed bid). Had it done so, it would have been a huge change for the North Downs line, with up five 'express' services a day. Oh well...
 

Farigiraf

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Had it done so, it would have been a huge change for the North Downs line, with up five 'express' services a day. Oh well...
Would also be atrocious for reliability on an already fragile route, skip all stations between Guildford and Redhill and use up any spare capacity that could in the future be utilised for something a bit less... crayonista, shall we say. A delay near York or Birmingham would result in late/cancelled GWR services on the North Downs Line, while a delayed NDL service (not uncommon judging by your recent threads) would disrupt any Grand Central express service.

Certainly would be nice for everywhere to have a few budget expresses to everywhere 4-5 times a day, Cambridge for example has pretty poor long-distance connectivity and changing at Peterborough is rarely reliable, but for regular users of the railway (such as those using local services to/from Gomshall) it risks messing up what already exists and works well.
 

Deepgreen

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Would also be atrocious for reliability on an already fragile route, skip all stations between Guildford and Redhill and use up any spare capacity that could in the future be utilised for something a bit less... crayonista, shall we say. A delay near York or Birmingham would result in late/cancelled GWR services on the North Downs Line, while a delayed NDL service (not uncommon judging by your recent threads) would disrupt any Grand Central express service.

Certainly would be nice for everywhere to have a few budget expresses to everywhere 4-5 times a day, Cambridge for example has pretty poor long-distance connectivity and changing at Peterborough is rarely reliable, but for regular users of the railway (such as those using local services to/from Gomshall) it risks messing up what already exists and works well.
Agreed - the practical side of me sees the huge potential for problems under the existing signalling regime on the route, but the enthusiast side would enjoy the novelty!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Perhaps someone will use a reverse image lookup programme to relocate 'Basingstoke' ? My guess would be Barmouth, just based on alphabetical proximity.

Regarding 'through' services across the border, I imagine a Plaid |Cymru government may wish to increase its 'independence'- maybe passport controls at Chepstow and Chester? or Basingstoke Parkway?
The same picture is used for all TfW stations - pointless in my opinion.
 

LLivery

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I've just seen on a Rail Mag social media post saying GC have withdrawn their application for London to Cleethorpes.

''No longer "commercially viable"'' apparently

It's paywalled, so I can't see anymore than that.
 

Zeremony

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London
It's paywalled, so I can't see anymore than that.
You can sign up to read for free


www.railmagazine.com/news/-no-longer-commercially-viable-grand-central-withdraws-cleethorpes-plan
Grand Central has withdrawn its application to introduce direct services between Cleethorpes and London King’s Cross.

The open access operator applied in early 2025 for services which would join trains from Bradford Interchange at Doncaster.

Trains would also have stopped at Grimsby Town, Habrough, Barnetby and Scunthorpe, with Grand Central believing the service "would have delivered significant benefits for local communities and the wider regional economy".

The operator told MPs in mid-September it had expected a decision from the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) by the end of April but “the time taken for the regulator to assess the application has unfortunately meant that a number of the economic factors underpinning our proposal have changed”.

Grand Central also said that rolling stock it intended to procure is now more expensive.

“We have explored all viable alternatives, but with our track access agreement running only until 2038, we have concluded that the service is unfortunately no longer commercially viable.

“This is not a decision we have taken lightly, and we have only reached this position as a very last resort. We have therefore regretfully formally notified the ORR of our decision to withdraw the application.”

Network Rail did not support the application, raising concerns about the effect joining and splitting services at Doncaster would have on East Coast Main Line (ECML) performance.

It also expressed concerns about King’s Cross platform capacity for ten-coach trains, while other operators and the Department for Transport were also opposed.

ORR said: “While opposition does not in itself mean an application takes longer to assess, the issues raised can require further evidence and consideration. In this case, there were detailed capacity, performance and wider economic issues progressing under our consideration before Grand Central withdrew its application.

“We highlighted the limited availability of capacity on the ECML in 2025, in the light of the major recast of the timetable that was implemented last December where we approved a significant number of new train services including open access.

“It follows that we must undertake detailed assessment of subsequent applications to add further services to that part of the network in order to decide them fairly. We have received a high volume of such applications for additional services.”

Other applications for the ECML include Grand Central’s plan to run from Newcastle to Brighton (which would use the route until Doncaster) and LNER’s request for its additional two-hourly Leeds-London King’s Cross service

Last week Grand Central announced it would lease the four remaining Class 180 diesel multiple units if its Newcastle-Brighton application is approved. It already operates the other ten.

Cleethorpes' last direct service to London ran in 1992. LNER had looked at extending a Lincoln service but this plan was put on hold in 2024.
 
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8ace

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25 Dec 2019
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Brighton
Oddly, this proposal popped up on the Google news feed while I was 'doom-scrolling' yesterday! I must admit I hadn't heard about it previously, but, judging by comments here, it looks 99% unlikely to succeed (and one wonders how much time and money was expended on an always-doomed bid). Had it done so, it would have been a huge change for the North Downs line, with up five 'express' services a day. Oh well...
This post Grand Central apply for Newcastle - Brighton direct | Page 16 | RailUK Forums seems to suggest it may yet happen....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

From as I understand it the additional 180s are in preparation for the proposed Newcastle to Brighton services…words used internally as a step closer to being approved.

221s are going to be sent to EMR with the aim to improve their services/timerables.

This on the back of the Cleethorpes to Kings Cross proposed services being scrapped.
 

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