Things which cause bus boarding/alighting to be slower now than 40 years ago.

johncrossley said:

The long time span is really the point. TfL was happy to tolerate increased fare evasion for years and we would probably still have open boarding if it wasn't for Covid and the associated bailout.

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Do you know that TfL were happy ?

Bletchleyite said:

No, I'm making a point that UK bus style operation is the thing that causes boarding/alighting to be slower than 40 years ago! (40 years ago presumably meaning conductor operation where the present situation did not apply).

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To just home in on this, conductor operation would have been decidedly scarce 40 years ago outside central London. Even odd pockets like Stockport with late-model half-cabs had largely got rid of conductors by the early 1980s.

If we are looking at bus life 40 years ago, what doesn't seem to have mentioned so far (and apologies if I've missed it anywhere) was the mid 1980s dash to urban minibus networks, largely by National Bus Comapany subsidiaries. While there were multiple factors at play with deregulation on the horizon, one 'breadvan benefit' was reduced journey times. This was of course in part due to the inherently speedier nature of the vehicles (and their over-enthusiastic drivers in some cases!), but also because the dwell time was reduced as the increased frequencies were introduced and each vehicle was picking up far fewer passengers - quite often very few in a competitive situation such as Bee Line Buzz in Manchester, who I drove for during their early years.

I'm not suggesting 16 seaters is the answer to Wilmslow Road of course, I just thought I'd throw in another bit of context as to what had been tried in the past.

BuhSnarf said:

It wasn't that they were happy to tolerate the increased fare evasion. The buses were introduced under the guise of having two people operation which mitigated the fare evasion issue, then they were removed meaning that they wanted to get rid of it as soon as they could.

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Open boarding was in operation for many years after the end of crew operation. TfL were only interested in the multi-door aspect. It was only the Mayor who wanted a "conductor".

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NCT said:

Do you know that TfL were happy ?

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They could have scrapped it at any time if they so wished.

Tetchytyke said:

The conductors guarding the open rear platform didn't technically have revenue duties and they went long before Covid anyway. Even after they started closing the door on the rear platform they still had multi-door boarding. TfL eventually got rid of it much later and they say it was specifically because of the fare evasion.

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Indeed - the "customer assistants" had no revenue duties though their presence may have deterred freeloading. However, it was 2016 when they got their P45s - well before bailouts.

johncrossley said:

The long time span is really the point. TfL was happy to tolerate increased fare evasion for years and we would probably still have open boarding if it wasn't for Covid and the associated bailout.

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Except open boarding was stopped long before Covid - see comment above.

Whisky Papa said:

To just home in on this, conductor operation would have been decidedly scarce 40 years ago outside central London. Even odd pockets like Stockport with late-model half-cabs had largely got rid of conductors by the early 1980s.

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Very true - I remember a few hung on til 1986 on Teesside and in my area, I think it was probably 1980/1.

It turns out the decision to remove open boarding was just before Covid

All New Routemasters will be converted to make the middle and rear doors exit only following a successful pilot on the route 8 that reduced fare evasion without affecting the reliability of the route.

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So I admit it had nothing to do with the bailout, but it does show that open boarding was in operation for some time after the end of crew operation.

johncrossley said:

They could have scrapped it at any time if they so wished.

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You haven’t answered my question. I’ll take that as a no.

johncrossley said:

TfL was happy to tolerate increased fare evasion for years

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I wouldn't say it was happy but that's subjective.

Perhaps it was prepared to tolerate it but then the financial (and also the political) realities meant that it wasn't prepared to tolerate it any more.

BuhSnarf said:

Whether they had a revenue role or not it would have been a deterrent to the "might try it folks."

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The might-try-it folks would just get on at the middle door. The customer assistants weren't permitted to leave the rear platform.

johncrossley said:

It turns out the decision to remove open boarding was just before Covid

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Interesting quote in that press release:

"Our successful pilot on the route 8 has shown that boarding using the front door only doesn't delay the service and reduces fare evasion, so we will change all other New Routemasters to follow suit"

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Emphasis is mine.