First Bus Ireland (Aircoach/Matthews) Discussion

DaveHarries said:

Thanks. I understand that the fleet numbers for the ones delivered to Dublin are possibly 13001 - 13008 so 13009 - 13014 are the ones for Bristol Airport. I don't know what the rigid ones will be numbered as though.

Dave

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Yes, the articulated ones are 13001 to 13008 on 251 plates.

Rigid ones in Dublin are 69801-69806 on 242 plates.

Considering the rigids sat around around for about 12 months or more parked at at a depot and not moving for most of that, to the point the batteries were flat and it was hard to start them, it was surprising to see them to enter service in plain white.

F Great Eastern said:

It has been reported in the press in Ireland that Aircoach has once again been heavily loss making in the previous 12 months and have lost a further €6.3m and this has forced First to act with the company receiving what is being called a '€25m equity injection'. These appear to be their two worst results on record.

More can be found in this Irish Times Article (may be paywalled for some)
https://www.irishtimes.com/business...osures/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



It's notable that in their accounts they've stated that they are focused on commercial recovery now, but there is a lot of work to do to achieve that and none of it will come cheap, because their competitors have really took advantage of the opportunities that they have handed to them over the past couple of years and as has been stated here and elsewhere, some of the commercial decision making Aircoach has taken over the past few years has been baffling.

What we do know though is next year in an attempt to cut costs and provide a quick turn-around service, Aircoach are to roll out the ex Glasgow Express Airport Deckers to replace some coaches, whilst continuing to use the Aircoach name and a Dublin Airport Flyer sub-brand. How this will work out remains to be seen, especially if they continue to charge the same price as National Express do for a coach.

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Sounds like management incompetence to get themselves into that position and the “equity injection” I fear could have an impact on any sort of progression and development (not that First are bothered these days with Franchising) to the bus business throughout the UK.

Metal Mickey said:

Sounds like management incompetence to get themselves into that position and the “equity injection” I fear could have an impact on any sort of progression and development (not that First are bothered these days with Franchising) to the bus business throughout the UK.

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Some very strange commercial decision making over that time, no more so than the Galway route.

On the Dublin to Galway 706 route there were three commercial operators , two running non stop (CityLink and GoBus) and two running a stopping service (Expressway and CityLink) on the way. The Expessway stopping service was cancelled due to not being commercially viable as the other operators hoovered up the core demand.

CityLink then launched a takeover bid for GoBus that everyone in the industry assumed would require some kind of commitment to sell off one of the licences for Dublin to Galway Non stop, as by taking over GoBus, they effectively had a monopoly on the Dublin to Galway market with three incumbent routes. on a corridor that once had three different operators.

Aircoach then, for a reason I don't understand, offered to replace much of the Expressway stopping route. The competition authorities, that would have otherwise required a divestment of one of the routes by CityLink, then allowed the takeover of GoBus by CityLink to go through without any competition remedies on the basis Aircoach had stepped in of their own accord, This left Aircoach having to start from scratch, against a now hugely dominant operator on the route who had the whole corridor sewn up. The Aircoach route never had a chance and predictably was a huge flop commercially. They literally played right into the hands of CityLink.

The sad thing is the issues are not limited to the Galway route, there was a major network redesign in 2024 which failed:

• The merging of the 702/703 routes to create a long, unwieldly route that extended the journey times of those at the outermost stops, saw the demand for the outermost stops fall considerably, which meant less than 9 months later the outer part was dropped, meaning areas that had been on the network for at least 15 years were no longer being served.
  
  
• The 700 was extended but had it's frequency cut in 2024 and the extension was dropped in early 2025, but previous frequency was not restored.
  
  
• The 701 which had been scrapped since 2014 was brought back in 2024 but also failed and ended up having it's route severely curtailed and operating hours cut back and is now effectively a short of the 700 renamed the 700X.

This is before we get into the onerous contract their accounts keep talking about, the driver shortages, the cancellations, the industrial relations rumbles and the Cork and Belfast routes.

F Great Eastern said:

Yes, the articulated ones are 13001 to 13008 on 251 plates.

Rigid ones in Dublin are 69801-69806 on 242 plates.

Considering the rigids sat around around for about 12 months or more parked at at a depot and not moving for most of that, to the point the batteries were flat and it was hard to start them, it was surprising to see them to enter service in plain white.

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Thanks for that info. Forgive me but I live on the other side of the Irish Sea and so I don't know the logistics of the system of vehicle registrations in Ireland and thus the significance - if any - of 242 and 251 plates whereas I find the UK system to be easier to understand. Is there something online anywhere about the Irish system?

Dave

DaveHarries said:

Thanks for that info. Forgive me but I live on the other side of the Irish Sea and so I don't know the logistics of the system of vehicle registrations in Ireland and thus the significance - if any - of 242 and 251 plates whereas I find the UK system to be easier to understand. Is there something online anywhere about the Irish system?

Dave

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The format is as follows

WWX-YY-ZZ

WW is the last two digits of the year of registration
X is either 1 for Jan-Jun or 2 for Jul-Dec.
YY is the county that the vehicle was registered in
ZZ is the sequence number than can run up to six digits.

So for example 242-D-21350 is a vehicle that was registered in 2024, between July and December in Dublin and was the 21350th vehicle to be registered in that period in Dublin (but sometimes numbers get missed for various reasons)

F Great Eastern said:

The format is as follows

WWX-YY-ZZ

WW is the last two digits of the year of registration
X is either 1 for Jan-Jun or 2 for Jul-Dec.
YY is the county that the vehicle was registered in
ZZ is the sequence number than can run up to six digits.

So for example 242-D-21350 is a vehicle that was registered in 2024, between July and December in Dublin and was the 21350th vehicle to be registered in that period in Dublin (but sometimes numbers get missed for various reasons)

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Thanks for that: an interesting comparison between the systems on both sides of the Irish Sea.

Dave

DaveHarries said:

Thanks for that: an interesting comparison between the systems on both sides of the Irish Sea.

Dave

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It actually makes sense when you think about it, the addition of 1 or 2 after the year is a relatively recent addition, it wasn't broken up into two halves originally, it was just the two digits of the year.

Finally after almost a year since they have arrived, the ex Glasgow Enviro 400s have entered service in Dublin for Aircoach.



33101/3/4/5/6/7 entered service over the past couple of days. 33102 has yet to turn a wheel in service and 33104 broke down at lunchtime on it's first day in service. PVR is said to be 4 of 7 with 5 needed to run the service over the course of a day.

This sees a somewhat strange situation where Aircoach are still running coaches on the 700 in their familiar blue livery, with the same coaches on the 700X being replaced by the new purple buses with the Aircoach name (and Dublin Airport Flyer sub-branding) on the 700X, which despite it's name, is no quicker than the 700, and is merely just a short working of it.

It remains to be seen how well this goes down, as it's somewhat diluted the product as tickets are valid on both services and the price is the same on both and whether this can help the company fight back against National Express that operates better coaches and provides a more consistent experience.

F Great Eastern said:

This sees a somewhat strange situation where Aircoach are still running coaches on the 700 in their familiar blue livery, with the same coaches on the 700X being replaced by the new purple buses with the Aircoach name (and Dublin Airport Flyer sub-branding) on the 700X, which despite it's name, is no quicker than the 700, and is merely just a short working of it.

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Yeah, strikes me as a weird dillution

Especially when Dublin Bus 41 uses similar buses, costs only €2, and takes roughly the same time, even if stopping more frequently. NatEx is really eating them up I recon.

F Great Eastern said:

This sees a somewhat strange situation where Aircoach are still running coaches on the 700 in their familiar blue livery, with the same coaches on the 700X being replaced by the new purple buses with the Aircoach name (and Dublin Airport Flyer sub-branding) on the 700X, which despite it's name, is no quicker than the 700, and is merely just a short working of it.

It remains to be seen how well this goes down, as it's somewhat diluted the product as tickets are valid on both services and the price is the same on both and whether this can help the company fight back against National Express that operates better coaches and provides a more consistent experience.

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My understanding is that the 700X was originally meant to be re-routed via Dublin Port Tunnel once the new buses went into service - there are images online which show the buses with "3Arena" printed on the side where they now say "Drumcondra Station".

The rumour I have heard is that they were refused a licence for this, although I cannot think of any legitimate basis on which it could have been refused.

danm14 said:

My understanding is that the 700X was originally meant to be re-routed via Dublin Port Tunnel once the new buses went into service - there are images online which show the buses with "3Arena" printed on the side where they now say "Drumcondra Station".

The rumour I have heard is that they were refused a licence for this, although I cannot think of any legitimate basis on which it could have been refused.

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The 700X is not a new route. Originally there was departures on the 700 every 15 minutes two years ago, then that got cut to every half hour and the ill fated 701 was born, which was then cut back to the city centre only and became the 700X. In reality the 700X is just a shortened version of the 700 from two years ago and 701 from one year ago. It serves exactly the same stops so the X really doesn't indicate express in the way you think it does.

The reason that they were refused a license is because the city centre via the Port Tunnel is already served by up to 8 services an hour by National Express and the test of whether to grant a license under Irish guidelines is based on expected demand for the service, the existing level of services and ensure there is a certain time separation from existing commercial service to prevent the kind of bus wars we have seen in the UK where one operator runs just ahead of another operator at the same stops.

What has happened with Aircoach (as explained earlier in this thread) is they have suffered from some poor decision making in terms of their network over the past 18 months and also have not been on the top of the game commercially. Whilst Aircoach have been messing around with ill-fated network reviews and being commercially outmanoeuvred, National Express has continued to add departures to their existing service due to increasing passenger numbers and from nothing has been able to overtake Aircoach and become the dominant operator.

According to an insider on an Irish enthusiast forum the aim was to 'kill the competition through frequency...they want a bus arriving almost as soon as the previous one left, both at the airport and in the city." and no doubt the powers that be at the National Transport Authority saw through exactly what this was about and said we won't have an English style bus war here.