The amended working for the first phase can be seen on RTT with the Cambrian temporarily as good as being an isolated network for that phase.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
- Thread starter hexagon789
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Thats going to be optimistic unless things improve dramatically with 197 availability. Next month especially having an extra 8 in service.
By February maybe as although 1 extra 197 is needed for Bristol from December, potentially 6 will be free from the 231's taking over Cheltenham/Maesteg etc. But 18 needed on the Cambrian is going to mean at least another 13 bringing the total diagrams up to 62.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
That is very interesting and shows progress is within sight even if it gets delayed.
Getting eight e197s available for Cambrian services must me fairly easy. The next ten 197s might be trickier.
I suspect eight more 197s per day is supportable as Machynlleth will shoulder that.
BUT :-
Then Machynlleth will be shouldering responsibility for two fleets until the 158s go and we know how badly that can go (thinking of Chester, Derby Etches Park). It only takes a delayed finish to introduction of 197s for Machynthlleth to end up overloaded. I wonder if it is feasible for more major work on 158s to be off loaded onto Canton if needs be ?.
So a rundown of the Cambrian 158 fleet BUT will the 197s beyond the first eight (or twelve) fill that gap quick enough ?.
The reason I ponder that is :-
1) It depends how many 398s are going to be in service by October 2026 or perhaps by/beyond February 2027.
(reminder the - 398s are just beginning to take over the TAM lines which means the FLIRTs that have been covering can move onto the duties they were ordered for which will free up even more 197s).
2) It depends on 197 availability - which some think is poor but I am not not sure either way. They should, by now, be bedded in and so a long way up the bathtub curve of new fleet reliability. fingers crossed.
3) At least the Borderlands Line must be no longer a draw on 197s now that the 230s appear to be sorted (jinx alert).
There is the option of 158s being easy to work on at Canton. I am presuming fewer 197s in South Wales as effectively Taffs Well comes on stream. So Taffs Well is an obvious shot in the arm. But then can Chester and Machynlleth cover as planned ?. I say all this as I think I read the 158s might be kept on for use elsewhere in TW land - but how true is that ?.
Either the above or more new units if TfW being in the market for more is true ?.
But simply put the 398s need to be indirectly replacing 197s fast enough.
For those interested - the 398 thread is now looking positive.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I think eight 197s is on Cambrian is easy enough. Four of them are on Cambrian already doing testing and training. Just need four more.
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Theres plenty of undiagrammed 153s, there will also be the 158s released from the Cambrian which could cover Ebbw/Maesteg/Cheltenham diagrams temporarily until the 231s are released.
With the amount of coupling/uncoupling across the network its hard to see where else the 158s could be used effectively.
The September diagrams see no 158s visit Machynlleth at all on booked work that i can see so all maintenance will seemingly be done at Crewe/Chester/Holyhead. Presumably any requiring major work would just see a unit withdrawn now.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks, looks like Mon 14/9/26 is the first day of some 197 service (for others' benefit):
(Aberystwyth, because that way you can do the 'Trains only' view without any non-passenger services showing, as I don't believe you can use both filters simultaneously).
Supposed last '158-only' day (Sun 13/9/26):
Thank goodness for the 153s! They have been useful as cover on nearly every route in the South outside of the Valley Lines and pair even went to Manchester (with a 150) last Sunday.
It would be good to see 158s return to the South, id like to ride one again before they go and its been over a year since ive been on one (well a TFW one anyway, I did ride a Northern one recently)
Regarding the 197s - having the Cambrian diagrams might well be easier if Machynlleth deal with those - but Chester is still going to have an issue unless things improve so likely to see sprinters covering in the South for a while yet.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Do the Cardiff based staff who work those services still sign 158s owing to how limited they appear in Cardiff these days?
Philip Roberts
Member
I appreciate that it wouldn't be without it's challenges but that does seem the obvious solution i.e. increase capacity where it's needed
Just a gentle reminder this thread is for news and actual updates regarding CAF class 197 Civity for TfW.
For discussion regarding any other unit/traction types, and/or for anything proposed, unconfirmed or speculative in nature (e.g. additional stock and/or depot capacity), please either use an existing thread or create a new thread, in the appropriate forum section, as appropriate.
We do very much welcome suggestions, ideas, etc providing they are posted in the Speculative Discussion section, please.
Many thanks in advance
For discussion regarding any other unit/traction types, and/or for anything proposed, unconfirmed or speculative in nature (e.g. additional stock and/or depot capacity), please either use an existing thread or create a new thread, in the appropriate forum section, as appropriate.
We do very much welcome suggestions, ideas, etc providing they are posted in the Speculative Discussion section, please.
Many thanks in advance
tfw756rider
On Moderation
There was some doubt as to whether or not 179003 is an ETCS/'Cambrian' unit (maybe because it's numbered 'out-of-order' with the later 197022-041).
Well, not only was 197003 the very first 197 to run on the Cambrian (in May 2022), but I can confirm, after seeing it at Shrewsbury on Mon 10/8/26, that it has the same visible additions as 197022-041 (the tinted cab windows, the extra switches on the bottom row of the control panel and the black vinyl around the control panel), and, as a unit not currently being used on the Cambrian, the ETCS isolation notice.
Well, not only was 197003 the very first 197 to run on the Cambrian (in May 2022), but I can confirm, after seeing it at Shrewsbury on Mon 10/8/26, that it has the same visible additions as 197022-041 (the tinted cab windows, the extra switches on the bottom row of the control panel and the black vinyl around the control panel), and, as a unit not currently being used on the Cambrian, the ETCS isolation notice.
Attachments
Welshguy1048
Established Member
@sd0733
@37052 xb mr
@MP393
@BillStampy
@FrodshamJnct
@ojb_455850
Morning
Is this path some kind of testing of the 197 ? - it stops at some stations for 3 minutes - even 10 minutes at Bangor.
Thank you
Dave
@37052 xb mr
@MP393
@BillStampy
@FrodshamJnct
@ojb_455850
Morning
Is this path some kind of testing of the 197 ? - it stops at some stations for 3 minutes - even 10 minutes at Bangor.
Thank you
Dave
AFAIK theres still some Cardiff Mainline crews booked on 158s between Chester and Shrewsbury.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
197 introduction Now postponed for September, likely delay of 4-6 weeks due to unit issues.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks for letting us know, I wonder what those issues are? (If you can't tell us, I understand).
So 197s now won't likely start to enter service on the Cambrian until October 2026 (between about Mon 12/10/26 and Mon 26/10/26)?
Jacob Porrett
Established Member
The 197 that had the "thermal incident" at Crewe depot...
Which would shift the changeover further into leaf fall.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Apologies if I've missed any information about these two units: does anyone in here know why 197028 has been out of service for about 4 months, and/or why 197013 has been out of service for about 1 month (as of me posting this on Thu 13/8/26)? Any updates about either of them are welcome.
I've now ridden on 72 of the 77, but I still need these two (197013/028) for rides (as well as 197030/035/039, but I probably won't be able to ride on those three until they enter service on the Cambrian).
I've now ridden on 72 of the 77, but I still need these two (197013/028) for rides (as well as 197030/035/039, but I probably won't be able to ride on those three until they enter service on the Cambrian).
animationmilo
Member
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 869
I only need 197039
General poor availability of sets I believe. Yes, in that window is the current plan.
Ive ridden on 74 out of 77 - the three remaining ones I need are 197038, 197039 and 197041!
Not sure about 028 as been out so long its information has dropped off the system.
013 had a gearbox failure at Swansea and limped off to Landore the next day and remains there.
Others not used recently are:
197008 at Holyhead for several months, 197014 at Chester since around December
197020 at Canton since March time
197033 at Holyhead long term
197045 at Chester since 21st July
197046 at Chester since 2nd June
197049 at Crewe South Yard since 24th July
197051 at Crewe South Yard since 29th June
197123 at Holyhead long term
197125 at Holyhead long term
tfw756rider
On Moderation
You two will probably have to wait until at least October 2026 to get rides on 197039, as until it enters service on the Cambrian (which is where it will likely enter service at all), I think it's probably going to stay as a Cambrian crew training unit. I heard that Transport for Wales and/or CAF want a unit that's 'Cambrian-only' until 197 Cambrian service starts, and this would be 197039.
Impressive statistics both, but I didn't have my first 197 ride until September 2023, and there was also a period between early 2026 and mid 2026 when I didn't ride on any 197s.
Thanks, I wonder if any progress is being made with improving availability (or do we have to wait until any CAF Chester strike disputes are resolved?)
My worry is that that thing could happen where it's October rather than September, then November rather than October, then December rather than November, etc...
No worries, thanks anyway. If anyone else in here has any information about the situation with 197028 being out-of-use for about 4 months, I'd be grateful to have it.
Thanks - at least it seems that Landore are presumably repairing 197013, rather than it becoming a "197045 no.2" with a mouldy interior.
Thanks, I wonder what the situation is with 197045 this time?
Thank you for the update @sd0733 . 197045 was the unit that was out of service for a long time last year and now hasnt been used in over 3 weeks.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
Yes, I expect they probably have route refresh days.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
There are three 197s at a time based at Machynlleth depot, with a fourth on standby at Shrewsbury Abbey Foregate sidings.
Today (Fri 14/8/26) at 14:30ish at Machynlleth, 197030 (which has recently come back on) was in the fuel tank siding (by the station footbridge, so probably the one you saw),
and through the old shed (visible from the Dyfi Eco Park road) were 197039, and an unidentified 197 that was blocked by a 158 (maybe 197035, if it was 197029 that went off).
The Dyfi Eco Park road spot can also be used to see any 197s that are sometimes in the "Coal and Tank Sidings" that are past the old shed.
The Caersws / Welshpool end of Platform 1 of the station can sometimes be used to get the number of a 197 in the old shed that can't be seen from anywhere else, but this requires a camera with a 140mm zoom lens (for example).
Attached are some photos of 197s at Machynlleth depot in June (and May) 2026 (they will all work when opened, just won't necessarily show thumbnail previews):
- 197039 in the fuel tank siding on on the 15/6/26 (taken from the station footbridge)
- 197039 in the fuel tank siding on the 15/6/26 (taken from the Dyfi Eco Park road spot)
- 197024 in the old shed on the 15/6/26 (taken from the Dyfi Eco Park road spot, view 1)
- 197024 in the old shed on the 15/6/26 (taken from the Dyfi Eco Park road spot, view 2)
- 197029 in one of the "Coal and Tank sidings" on the 15/6/26 (taken from the Dyfi Eco Park road spot)
- 197029 in the old shed on the 25/5/26 (taken from the Caersws / Welshpool end of Platform 1 of the station)
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I started on 28th February 2023 with a trip from Chester to Manchester Piccadilly then another trip from Manchester Oxford Road to Manchester Airport the following day (1st March 2023). Then a gap until Summer of 2023 when they started appearing in the South and I did a few Cardiff to Newport. Then really started to get them regularly when they started working to Swansea and West Wales in the Autumn of 2023.
I really should make an effort to get 038 and 041 before they end up on the Cambrian! 197039 will likely be the one that i take ages to get!
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Im wondering that. I am also wondering why 2 of the 3 car units are in Holyhead long term. (123/125)
Any idea why they want one that's never been used in service elsewhere?
Cambrian359
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2018
- Messages
- 302
So they can claim that
I said back in 2017/18 that the limited number of 197 fitted for the Cambrian would end up being pulled elsewhere during shortages (but the opposite can’t happen) but I never expected it happen before they even turned a wheel on the Cambrian.
On the plus side we’re within touching distance now! Fingers crossed by end of year everything is where it should be!
Yes I wouldn't be surprised if 197039 is the unit that runs the first passenger service on the Cambrian for the official launch.
Saying that most 197s has their first passenger services in the North so any new routes in the South that had 197s the chances were the units has been used elsewhere before.