Amazing how flexible people's attitudes become when offered a £2.5k deposit contribution and 0% finance. A Tesla for £299 a month suits a lot of people.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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BananaRepublic
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A Model 3 Standard Range can be leased for £328 pm
with an up front payment of only £528
x 24 months
8,000 miles
Same lease with a larger up front payment....
£225 pm with a £2,700 deposit
x 24 months
8,000 miles
Opt for a PCP and it's 0% with a Tesla contribution of £2500 towards the deposit.
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with an up front payment of only £528
x 24 months
8,000 miles
Same lease with a larger up front payment....
£225 pm with a £2,700 deposit
x 24 months
8,000 miles
Opt for a PCP and it's 0% with a Tesla contribution of £2500 towards the deposit.
.
I am completely out of touch with this sort of finance so what happens at the end of the 24 month period?
Snow1964
Established Member
If it is a lease you hand it back, and might get hit for extra charges for excess mileage, damage, etc. Basically then start again having had to come up with another deposit if want another car. In certain circumstances might be able to extend lease period or buy the car (but the LeaseCo says how much that will be).
If it HP, (Hire Purchase), once you have finished paying it is yours and free to continue using until you sell it.
If it is PCP (personal contract purchase), have 3 options
1) hand it back (with same potential extra penalties for excess mileage and damage as per lease)
2) pay off the balance, known as a balloon payment, then it is 100% yours
3) try and negotiate a new deal with dealer for different car.
With a PCP, the settlement balance (balloon) amount is agreed at start of deal (not at end), so is a guess at its future value. By time deal ends the car might be worth more so will have asset value in it (you could always pay balloon and sell it next day to we buy any car etc), pocketing the difference, or use it as deposit towards new deal. Or is could be worth less than balloon amount that is required in which case handing pay is better option because it's the finance company who takes the loss (why pay more than it's worth, if you can just walk away).
Some leases and PCPs are tied to manufacturers, and clearly they are likely to get a better deal for another car from same company if you stick with them, that's their incentive, you will take on another new car of same brand, rather than stopping them getting a selling margin by keeping same car for many years.
Always remember, however they dress up and present deals, they are for manufacturers and finance companies to make money out of you, never assume what appears as a good deal was created for the customers benefit, or to save consume money long term, it isn't, the deal is to get people to part with more money than they intended to spend.
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For some people (not me incidentally), a monthly payment is simply the price of ownership they are willing to accept for having a new car every 3/4 years. Some like the idea of fixed costs, some like the reassurance of having a car permanently in warranty, some dislike the car buying and selling process so much they are happy to have a recurring lease with the same dealership. There isn't a one-size-fits-all.
New cars rarely (if ever) make financial sense, so it's more about finding a purchasing solution that fits one's life.
New cars rarely (if ever) make financial sense, so it's more about finding a purchasing solution that fits one's life.
BananaRepublic
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PCP is usually the most expensive way to purchase a new car.
Often, very much more expensive.
A Personal Lease is usually cheaper over the same contract term.
People are seduced into these PCP deals by low monthly payments and tend to look at the final/balloon payment as something way off that they'll deal with down the line.
Big mistake.
The first thing to consider about the cost when buying any car, new or second-hand, is how much will it be worth at the end of the day.
Whether that's the end of a finance deal or loan, or when you anticipate selling it on at some future point.
Work back from there.
However, sometimes there are reasonable PCP deals where a generous discount and very low to zero APR, makes the PCP competitive.
Rarely is it the cheapest option.
The current Tesla 0% PCP on the Model 3, with a £2.5K manufacturer contribution, is a very good deal....if you want a brand new model.
Nearly new, late, low mileage would alway be a cheaper route to ownership.
.
Often, very much more expensive.
A Personal Lease is usually cheaper over the same contract term.
People are seduced into these PCP deals by low monthly payments and tend to look at the final/balloon payment as something way off that they'll deal with down the line.
Big mistake.
The first thing to consider about the cost when buying any car, new or second-hand, is how much will it be worth at the end of the day.
Whether that's the end of a finance deal or loan, or when you anticipate selling it on at some future point.
Work back from there.
However, sometimes there are reasonable PCP deals where a generous discount and very low to zero APR, makes the PCP competitive.
Rarely is it the cheapest option.
The current Tesla 0% PCP on the Model 3, with a £2.5K manufacturer contribution, is a very good deal....if you want a brand new model.
Nearly new, late, low mileage would alway be a cheaper route to ownership.
.
Snow1964
Established Member
There is a caveat to this, sometimes the discounts, deposit contributions, other freebies (servicing, free fuel or charge card etc) and very low or 0% interest beat the nearly new.
I have seen deals where getting £7k off new, and 0%, but nearly new is only about £2k cheaper, but comes with £3-4k financing interest. So by time added the interest getting a used car for more than new.
These sort of deals usually happen in last 3-4 weeks of quarters, when some flash special offer adds £1-2k extra deposit contribution for short period.
BananaRepublic
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August is the month before the busiest period for new registrations.
March and September are the months when the new half-yearly registration plate changes and the preceding months are traditionally see lower numbers of new registrations.
Like the last week or two before the end of a sales quarter, the month leading up to the new reg. change is where the best deals and offers are usually available.
I do not know many who use PCP for their motoring needs, one person did not foresee the situation at the end of the term , not the smartest of chaps, for the first ever PCP, it was all too easy, the equity of his old car trade-in funded the initial deposit, at the end of the PCP, hand back time , he was left with next to nothing and had to scrape the barrel to find money for the deposit for the next
thejuggler
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The one cost most buyers 'forget' when buying via PCP is the deposit in the belief the delaers are so wrong with their sums the car will be worth far more than the GFV (it rarely is). £5k deposit over a typical 36 month term is almost £140 a month.
I don't think there is a great PCP conspiracy here to be honest. The figures are prominantly displayed and available to be played around with. The only figure that matters is "How much does this cost me after 36/48/60 months"?
Sorry to use Tesla again:
£0 deposit/ 48 months @£429 = £20,592
£2000 deposit/ 48 months @£386 = £20,528
£10000 deposit/ 48 months @£216 = £20,368
It doesn't really matter if you have a deposit or not - the cost after 4 years is basically the same.
(If I was in the market for a PCP deal, I would go for 0% and use my £10k in a stocks and shares ISA for 4 years.)
Sorry to use Tesla again:
£0 deposit/ 48 months @£429 = £20,592
£2000 deposit/ 48 months @£386 = £20,528
£10000 deposit/ 48 months @£216 = £20,368
It doesn't really matter if you have a deposit or not - the cost after 4 years is basically the same.
(If I was in the market for a PCP deal, I would go for 0% and use my £10k in a stocks and shares ISA for 4 years.)
That’s in nominal prices of course, inflstion will take a bite out of the £0 deposit option.
Not sure why inflation would make much of a difference as the monthly’s are locked in for the four years? But if you pocket the £10k and put it in an ISA or whatever at least you’re getting the interest for that value. If you give up the 10k straight away as a deposit that’s a bigger inflation hit over the four years.
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That’s what i meant, sorry if it didn’t come over like that.
i.e. £10k now is £10kmin todays money, £429 for the final monthly payment in 4 years time will be the equivalent of about £360-£390 now (depending on the inflation rate)
Snow1964
Established Member
Latest news from SMMT (Society of Motor manufacturers and Traders) on used electric cars, 1 in 18 switched to used EV (1 in 30 year before)
www.smmt.co.uk
Used car market returns to growth as EV sales accelerate - SMMT
Used car market dips just -0.2% to 2,016,232 units in first quarter of 2026. Battery electric vehicle transactions up 32.0% as volume and market share reach new records.
www.smmt.co.uk
Any experts present on the subject of Corporation Tax and ZEV's?
I read an article that a company running a scheme for employees to drive ZEV's as company cars can enjoy major tax allowances applicable to ZEV's but only minor allowances for IC cars.
The article quoted an example where the Corporation Tax saving for the ZEV yielded £13,000 in the first year. The Corporation Tax saving for IC car was a fraction of £13,000 in the first year.
Was the article substantially correct?
If true that's really good news. Anything that reduces the level of hydrocarbon vehicle mileage is a benefit to all. Allowing IC vehicle use like there is no environmental or health risk just extends the transition to EVs.
That sounds like https://www.gov.uk/capital-allowances/first-year-allowances
and https://www.gov.uk/capital-allowances/business-cars
However, note:
Most company car schemes are via lease companies such as Zenith, so I don’t think this would apply.
So, some realities of EV ownership.
Tesla model 3 bought used 2 year old 27,000 miles in May 2023. Has just passed 110,000 miles. I have bought 6 tyres. Total maintenance spend other than tyres and windscreen washer fluid £240:
Front suspension control arms £120
Air conditioning filters change *2 £80
Wiper blades £40.
Yeah, battery degradation is a thing but it still did Norfolk to Cornwall (386 miles) fully loaded at normal motorway speeds with 1 charge stop whilst we ate (in fact I nearly got idle fees as the car finished before we did).
Second car was a Niro that was on PCP. Maintenance spend was 1 rip-off "service" £270 and tyres. 23,000 miles when handed back.
Replaced with used iD.4 which so far we've spent nothing on.
And don't get me started on the "fuel" savings.
I'm doing 35,000 miles a year in the Tesla and it's much more practical and cheaper than ICE. Nothing would make me even think about going back..
Tesla model 3 bought used 2 year old 27,000 miles in May 2023. Has just passed 110,000 miles. I have bought 6 tyres. Total maintenance spend other than tyres and windscreen washer fluid £240:
Front suspension control arms £120
Air conditioning filters change *2 £80
Wiper blades £40.
Yeah, battery degradation is a thing but it still did Norfolk to Cornwall (386 miles) fully loaded at normal motorway speeds with 1 charge stop whilst we ate (in fact I nearly got idle fees as the car finished before we did).
Second car was a Niro that was on PCP. Maintenance spend was 1 rip-off "service" £270 and tyres. 23,000 miles when handed back.
Replaced with used iD.4 which so far we've spent nothing on.
And don't get me started on the "fuel" savings.
I'm doing 35,000 miles a year in the Tesla and it's much more practical and cheaper than ICE. Nothing would make me even think about going back..
Snow1964
Established Member
If you are anything like me, then however you compare overnight electricity vs petrol / diesel savings are its costs about 7% (or one fourteenth)
Either using the how far does £100 worth get you, or what is the cost per £1000 miles method etc. Get roughly the same figure (and there is few percent variation because fuel prices fluctuate, and electric cars vary by ambient temperature)
Zap map did a survey and found those with overnight charging at home, charge 16% away (to do top ups on long trips). So factoring this in, end up with savings of about £110-120 per 1000 miles on fuel.
For many people (and not talking high mileage uses like @trebor79 ) going to be saving around £100 per month on fuel, if have home charger. So even if paying extra £50 per month for an EV, there is net saving
Harpers Tate
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- 2,033
In my case, in my last EV (just upgraded) I reached £1000 fuel cost at ~48800 miles. That's a mixture of (early on) free supermarket etc., charging, overnight cheap rate and some "full price" roadside chargers.
My new car (only ~1 month's experience of it) has a much greater range and that hugely reduces the probabilty that I'll need a roadside charge. I am monitoring......
Snow1964
Established Member
Dft has just published a review regarding zero emissions by 2035
www.gov.uk
Review launched to shape pathway to reach zero emission driving by 2035
Submit your views on the ZEV Mandate review consultation by 23 October 2026.
Stupid idea. The industry is transitioning to electric. Pandering to pressure from legacy manufacturers to keep building polluting old tech is not going to help them in the long run.Dft has just published a review regarding zero emissions by 2035
Review launched to shape pathway to reach zero emission driving by 2035
Submit your views on the ZEV Mandate review consultation by 23 October 2026.
Nobody who tried an EV ever goes back. Mandate or not, ICE has limited time left.
The consultation is on the pathway to zero emission driving, not getting rid of the mandate. The status quo is the mandate adoption rate increases dramatically over the next few years when adoption hasn't been increasing anywhere near the proposed rate. Flattening that rate increase to be more linear rather than S-curve shaped could avoid seriously disrupting the car markets and potentially make EVs cheaper on finance from higher confidence in residual values.
The consultation also cuts both ways, there's parts about updating how plug-in hybrids are treated to reflect their real world emissions. That's targeting to reduce pollution by not crediting plug-in hybrid sales as highly because a large chunk aren't running on the battery much of the time.
Manufacturer influence will play a part but a lot of the consultation appears to be facing the realities of the market and public sentiment.
HSTEd
Veteran Member
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- 14 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 20,262
Perhaps I am too cynical, but this consultation appears to only be occurring because the legacy manufacturers have spent enormous effort lobbying for the EV sales requirement to be gutted.
In my view, they know they cannot compete with the Chinese manufacturers in electric cars, hence why they are desperate to slow the transition.
Consultations, in my bitter experience as a climate researcher, are often tools for manufacturing consent, not genuine attempts to get the views of industry or other stakeholders.
EDIT: Correction, misunderstood, lowest level is 50% by 2030, which is better than 30% but still terrible. Especially as it then magically expects sales to explode to reach 100% in 2035.
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It has not been far off. Very nearly 25% last year were BEV and the 33% target for this year is not going to be missed by much.
100%
Yup. And it's going to bite them in the bum. They really are sticking their heads in the sand.
I think we will be close to 100% in 2035 anyway, provided the government doesn't do anything stupid like ban Chinese EVs.
The anti-EV brigade (some funded by those with vested interests, others just going along with it because they like the sound of their petrol engine going 'vroom vroom') will fade away.
The fossil fuel companies won't waste money once the battle is lost, and some will reluctantly acknowledge the need to do more themselves (EV charging that is done properly, not so badly it's as if they want to make the experience bad so people go back to petrol/diesel).
A lot of the die-hard petrolheads will die off, literally, and the rest will at some point have been in so many electric cars, buses, coaches or vans driven by others that they'll find it hard to keep spouting the same myths over and over. Nobody will care. They'll eventually capitulate and switch.
Only those with true classic cars will want to keep an ICE car. They'll almost certainly be driving an EV day to day, perhaps taking their ICE car in a trailer towed by their EV to a track every once in a while.
Others will convert their classics to electric, and there have been some stunning conversions to older cars from the 70s and 80s (and older) which will likely only continue to grow as a way to keep such vehicles on the road without paying the crazy costs of fuel ten years from now. Not least many ICE cars may end up banned from city centres as low emission zones become zero emission zones.
So, long story short, I don't think we'll see the incentives remain for EVs for that long because prices should come down markedly anyway (they already are). As said above, unless we do something silly like ban Chinese EVs to help the incumbents, competition should bring prices down.
The few remaining ICE cars, and hybrids, will have got to the point where they're now more expensive to make because of the limited quantities made - so that too will swing sales towards EVs.
If the car makers think that axing targets means they can just go back to selling loads of 'cheap' 1 litre 3 cylinder petrol cars for city cars and whatever engine they pick for your family SUV/crossover, it will be pointless because everyone will have experienced the comfort and performance of an EV by then - a family member, relative, taxi driver etc. Why would they want a noisy car that costs 2-3 times more to service every year and fuel is now even more expensive, plus a lot of petrol stations have closed?
We are very much at the point where we can say;
Yes. It's happening now and can't be stopped.
The fossil fuel companies won't waste money once the battle is lost, and some will reluctantly acknowledge the need to do more themselves (EV charging that is done properly, not so badly it's as if they want to make the experience bad so people go back to petrol/diesel).
A lot of the die-hard petrolheads will die off, literally, and the rest will at some point have been in so many electric cars, buses, coaches or vans driven by others that they'll find it hard to keep spouting the same myths over and over. Nobody will care. They'll eventually capitulate and switch.
Only those with true classic cars will want to keep an ICE car. They'll almost certainly be driving an EV day to day, perhaps taking their ICE car in a trailer towed by their EV to a track every once in a while.
Others will convert their classics to electric, and there have been some stunning conversions to older cars from the 70s and 80s (and older) which will likely only continue to grow as a way to keep such vehicles on the road without paying the crazy costs of fuel ten years from now. Not least many ICE cars may end up banned from city centres as low emission zones become zero emission zones.
So, long story short, I don't think we'll see the incentives remain for EVs for that long because prices should come down markedly anyway (they already are). As said above, unless we do something silly like ban Chinese EVs to help the incumbents, competition should bring prices down.
The few remaining ICE cars, and hybrids, will have got to the point where they're now more expensive to make because of the limited quantities made - so that too will swing sales towards EVs.
If the car makers think that axing targets means they can just go back to selling loads of 'cheap' 1 litre 3 cylinder petrol cars for city cars and whatever engine they pick for your family SUV/crossover, it will be pointless because everyone will have experienced the comfort and performance of an EV by then - a family member, relative, taxi driver etc. Why would they want a noisy car that costs 2-3 times more to service every year and fuel is now even more expensive, plus a lot of petrol stations have closed?
We are very much at the point where we can say;
Yes. It's happening now and can't be stopped.
That's the other thing the incumbents are getting wrong. We have to have the Kia "serviced" to maintain the warranty. A wasted day and £250 for them to provide a report saying the tyre pressures and treads were ok (which we already knew) and 95% of the rest of it was a load of blank tick boxes that apply only to ICE.
Absolute rip-off.
I bought my Tesla used from a car supermarket. There is no servicing required on a Tesla. It has 27,000 miles on it and was 2 years old.
6 months later I thought I could hear a dodgy wheel bearing. Logged it on the app, arranged a date and time at my convenience to take it in. Wandered into town, technician called me a couple of hours later to say the wheels bearings are fine but the rear drive unit (motor and gearbox) needed replacing. They'll loan me another car for the approx 2 weeks it will take to get a new one delivered.
So I go back to Tesla, walk up to the loan car and just open the door like I do with my own. All my settings and preferences are automatically loaded. It had free supercharging.
I didn't have to use the word "warranty" once. Superb service.
After I got it back the heat pump was constantly hunting and annoying me. Logged that on the app. A few hours later I get a message "We've had a look remotely and everything seems ok, but we've run a bleed cycle on the coolant system as it's possible there was still some air trapped from the motor replacement. Let us know if you still have a concern." Problem solved.
It's just a completely different ownership experience from the legacy brands.
The car is now 5.5 years old and has down nearly 111,000 miles. My total spend on maintenance?
6 tyres (the tyres it came with were not new, they seem to last about 50,000+ miles and I don't drive like a monk).
2 sets of air conditioning filters @ £50 (DIY fit).
2 sets of windscreen wiper blades.
Front suspension control arm replacement £120.
Err, that's it!
The legacy brands really really need to buck their ideas up. If that means abandoning the dealership model, so be it.