Fined by GWR at Paddington, not sure if its worth appealing

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

Hi, I was issued a fine 3/8 by GWR at Paddington and would be grateful for and help / advice with my dispute.

I was travelling from Slough station to Paddington station and then going on to Waterloo. The "tap and go" machines at Slough were all closed except for one on which the gate was already open. I tapped the machine with my contactless card anyway and carried on thru, i wasn't entirely sure if it had registered, but was hoping i might be able to pay at the other end if it hadn't.

Upon reaching Paddington i informed the officials at the tap and go gate that i wasn't absolutely sure if my card had registered at Slough and was there any way for them to check and they said no you shouldn't have got on the train if you weren't totally sure you had a ticket so they issued me a fine, having done that they then opened the gate for me and i proceeded with my journey.

Having later checked my TfL statement it seems as though my card had registered at the Slough tap and go as i have been charged for the journey from Slough thru to Waterloo. I'm wondering if i should carry on appealing this fine or whether to just cut my losses and pay it, as GWR have already dismissed my first appeal .Thank you for reading and for any advice you may be able to offer, Phil.

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WesternLancer · 10 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
Hi, I was issued a fine 3/8 by GWR at Paddington and would be grateful for and help / advice with my dispute.

I was travelling from Slough station to Paddington station and then going on to Waterloo. The "tap and go" machines at Slough were all closed except for one on which the gate was already open. I tapped the machine with my contactless card anyway and carried on thru, i wasn't entirely sure if it had registered, but was hoping i might be able to pay at the other end if it hadn't.

Upon reaching Paddington i informed the officials at the tap and go gate that i wasn't absolutely sure if my card had registered at Slough and was there any way for them to check and they said no you shouldn't have got on the train if you weren't totally sure you had a ticket so they issued me a fine, having done that they then opened the gate for me and i proceeded with my journey.

Having later checked my TfL statement it seems as though my card had registered at the Slough tap and go as i have been charged for the journey from Slough thru to Waterloo. I'm wondering if i should carry on appealing this fine or whether to just cut my losses and pay it, as GWR have already dismissed my first appeal .Thank you for reading and for any advice you may be able to offer, Phil.

welcome
Penalty Fare experts here will almost certainly be able to help advise you (I assume what you are talking about is a Penalty Fare: £100 + costs o ticket reduced to £50 + ticket if paid promptly - these are not actually fines even though I appreciate it they will seem like one)

But they will want to see (if you still have them)

- a copy of the Penalty Fare notice issued at the time
- a copy of the appeal wording you submitted at stage 1
- a copy of the response you have received from GWR to this appeal, rejecting it

Remove any personal details and ref numbers from anywhere in the documents before you upload them

pokemonsuper9 · 10 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
I was travelling from Slough station to Paddington station and then going on to Waterloo. The "tap and go" machines at Slough were all closed except for one on which the gate was already open. I tapped the machine with my contactless card anyway and carried on thru, i wasn't entirely sure if it had registered, but was hoping i might be able to pay at the other end if it hadn't.

The best thing to have done in that situation is just carried on your journey.
If there is a missed tap you can contact TfL and as long as you're not a repeat offender (I think the limit is twice a month) they'll correct it.

Sun Chariot · 10 Aug 2026

Hello Phil, welcome and thanks for asking.

Western Lancer types more quickly than I :lol:

and provided much of what I was writing. Just two questions from me:

1) Your journey history clearly shows your Slough to Waterloo payment. Did you send a screenshot / printout of that, with your 1st stage appeal?

2) Your Post 1 states that you were let through the (opened) gateline at Paddington (after, I presume, a Penalty Fare had been issued). Were you actively prevented from tapping your contactless card at Paddington? Or, did you not tap out as a result of the gates being opened for you to walk through?

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

WesternLancer said:
welcome
Penalty Fare experts here will almost certainly be able to help advise you (I assume what you are talking about is a Penalty Fare: £100 + costs o ticket reduced to £50 + ticket if paid promptly - these are not actually fines even though I appreciate it they will seem like one)

But they will want to see (if you still have them)

- a copy of the Penalty Fare notice issued at the time
- a copy of the appeal wording you submitted at stage 1
- a copy of the response you have received from GWR to this appeal, rejecting it

Remove any personal details and ref numbers from anywhere in the documents before you upload them

thank you, i don't have a copy of my initial appeal, i typed it into the appeals website and there doesn't seem to be a way to go in and access it. the other items i've attached below.

MarlowDonkey · 10 Aug 2026

WesternLancer said:
welcome
Penalty Fare experts here will almost certainly be able to help advise you (I assume what you are talking about is a Penalty Fare: £100 + costs o ticket reduced to £50 + ticket if paid promptly - these are not actually fines even though I appreciate it they will seem like one)

I would have thought that as the Penalty Fare is issued for not having a ticket, the fact as evidenced by the TfL website that you did have a ticket is an extremely valid reason for the Penalty Fare to be withdrawn.

The experts will be able to advise on how to word the appeal, but as suggested above will need sight of the paperwork with identifying details removed.

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

Sun Chariot said:
Hello Phil, welcome and thanks for asking.

Western Lancer types more quickly than I and provided much of what I was writing. Just two questions from me:

1) Your journey history clearly shows your Slough to Waterloo payment. Did you send a screenshot / printout of that, with your 1st stage appeal?

2) Your Post 1 states that you were let through the (opened) gateline at Paddington (after, I presume, a Penalty Fare had been issued). Were you actively prevented from tapping your contactless card at Paddington? Or, did you not tap out as a result of the gates being opened for you to walk through?

Hi, yes i sent a pdf of the full statement in my initial appeal,

to your second question no not actively prevented, before issuing the fine they were keeping themselves between me and the gate essentially blocking my access to it so it would have been a bit awkward to attempt to tap it , they then opened the gate after the fine was issued and there seemed little point in tapping at that point anyway, they just seemed very keen to issue the fine above anything else.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

pokemonsuper9 said:
The best thing to have done in that situation is just carried on your journey.
If there is a missed tap you can contact TfL and as long as you're not a repeat offender (I think the limit is twice a month) they'll correct it.

thank you, that's definitely what i would do now yes

ainsworth74 · 10 Aug 2026

Reappeal on the basis you had a valid ticket and touched the reader correctly. Include a copy of your journey history from TfL. Sadly the first two stages of appeals are often denied as they are dealt with by people who are not well paid and therefore not well qualified/trained to deal with these matters. The third stage is usually dealt with by people that at least have a some semblance of an idea of what they're doing.

phil66 said:
to your second question no not actively prevented, before issuing the fine they were keeping themselves between me and the gate essentially blocking my access to it so it would have been a bit awkward to attempt to tap it , they then opened the gate after the fine was issued and there seemed little point in tapping at that point anyway, they just seemed very keen to issue the fine above anything else.

Sadly many revenue protection staff are not well trained either. Personally I would not have said anything to them and simply have tapped when I arrived at Paddington. By speaking to them proactively and trying to do the right thing you've unfortunately made more legwork for yourself dealing with this nonsense.

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

ainsworth74 said:
Reappeal on the basis you had a valid ticket and touched the reader correctly. Include a copy of your journey history from TfL. Sadly the first two stages of appeals are often denied as they are dealt with by people who are not well paid and therefore not well qualified/trained to deal with these matters. The third stage is usually dealt with by people that at least have a some semblance of an idea of what they're doing.

Sadly many revenue protection staff are not well trained either. Personally I would not have said anything to them and simply have tapped when I arrived at Paddington. By speaking to them proactively and trying to do the right thing you've unfortunately made more legwork for yourself dealing with this nonsense.

thank you, yes, as soon as i got home and looked at the tfl statement to double check and it turned out i had tapped it i thought what was i even thinking , so silly.. a hard lesson but glad i have the documented proof on my side..

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

phil66 said:
thank you, yes, as soon as i got home and looked at the tfl statement to double check and it turned out i had tapped it i thought what was i even thinking , so silly.. a hard lesson but glad i have the documented proof on my side..

thanks again , will reappeal and see how it goes, you guys seem to think i have a case so thats very reassuring, thank you again.

AlterEgo · 10 Aug 2026

I'm confused. They issued a penalty fare without even checking if you had a valid ticket??

MarlowDonkey · 10 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
I tapped the machine with my contactless card anyway and carried on thru, i wasn't entirely sure if it had registered, but was hoping i might be able to pay at the other end if it hadn't.

Isn't the right thing to do to tap out as normal? Wouldn't you be let through and if the Slough entry hadn't registered, you would get an incomplete journey charge from TfL which could be sorted out later.? I don't think the gates talk to each other in real time, so it's up to the back office TfL computer to make sense of it all.

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

MarlowDonkey said:
I would have thought that as the Penalty Fare is issued for not having a ticket, the fact as evidenced by the TfL website that you did have a ticket is an extremely valid reason for the Penalty Fare to be withdrawn.

The experts will be able to advise on how to word the appeal, but as suggested above will need sight of the paperwork with identifying details removed.

AlterEgo said:
I'm confused. They issued a penalty fare without even checking if you had a valid ticket??

exactly, i told them about the slough tap and go and if there was any way they could check it had gone thru for sure, but they were just "you shouldn't have got on the train" and they were just very keen to issue the fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Aug 2026 ==

MarlowDonkey said:
Isn't the right thing to do to tap out as normal? Wouldn't you be let through and if the Slough entry hadn't registered, you would get an incomplete journey charge from TfL which could be sorted out later.? I don't think the gates talk to each other in real time, so it's up to the back office TfL computer to make sense of it all.

i wasn't aware of that so yes , in hindsight, thts definitely what i shudve done

AlterEgo · 10 Aug 2026

Pathetic from GWR.

Cdd89 · 10 Aug 2026

AlterEgo said:
I'm confused. They issued a penalty fare without even checking if you had a valid ticket??

TOCs have no insight into contactless touch history, so my impression is that PFs are routinely issued based on circumstantial or inconclusive data, usually based on a passenger confession or statement of some sort.

I'm not sure what the continued excuses are for being unable to check contactless touches in real time, but they do need to stop.

swt_passenger · 10 Aug 2026

Cdd89 said:
TOCs have no insight into contactless touch history, so my impression is that PFs are routinely issued based on circumstantial or inconclusive data, usually based on a passenger confession or statement of some sort.

AIUI TfL don’t know either, if checked on trains or on the tube. They can only tell for sure if you‘re currently touched in if checked on a bus.

ainsworth74 · 10 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
thank you, yes, as soon as i got home and looked at the tfl statement to double check and it turned out i had tapped it i thought what was i even thinking , so silly.. a hard lesson but glad i have the documented proof on my side..

Let us know how you get on and if you need any other guidance!

MarlowDonkey said:
Isn't the right thing to do to tap out as normal? Wouldn't you be let through and if the Slough entry hadn't registered, you would get an incomplete journey charge from TfL which could be sorted out later.? I don't think the gates talk to each other in real time, so it's up to the back office TfL computer to make sense of it all.

Absolutely, in this scenario you should tap out as normal and then sort things out afterwards.

AlterEgo said:
Pathetic from GWR.

I think that's a fair summary yes!

swt_passenger said:
AIUI TfL don’t know either, if checked on trains or on the tube. They can only tell for sure if you‘re currently touched in if checked on a bus.

Yes my understanding is that this is all done at the back office at the end of the day and that the scanners are basically just checking if the card has been touched in or if the card is blacklisted. I think if the card hasn't been touched in it applies a maximum journey charge (so you might end up with two) but you could obviously phone the helpline and correct it. @MikeWh is the man for this sort of thing though! I'm just half remembering stuff I've been told before :lol:

But the main thing for the OP is that they appear to have been charged a completely bogus PF as it seems like they absolutely had touched in and therefore were 100% valid for travel and absolutely should appeal it again and all the way to the third stage if needed.

signed · 10 Aug 2026

ainsworth74 said:
in it applies a maximum journey charge

It applies an inspection charge

Interestingly no mention of the bus difference

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

The Revenue Inspection Device (RID) is used by Revenue Protection Inspectors to check whether a customer has a valid ticket and touched in correctly at the start of their journey using a contactless card (or device), an Oyster card or an ITSO smartcard. The RID device does not have any input onto a customer card.

If a customer does not present a valid means of travel, a penalty fare of £100 (£50 if paid within 21 days) may be issued or they may be reported for possible prosecution under certain circumstances.

If a passenger presents a contactless card, the RID does not apply a charge at the time of inspection. Instead, the card or device is checked to confirm whether it was touched in and is accepted for travel on TfL’s services.

If the card is not accepted for travel, or the passenger has not touched in at the start of their journey, a Revenue Inspection Charge will be applied during overnight processing or they may be liable to a penalty fare. The Revenue Inspection Charge is calculated by our back-office system, once the full day’s travel activity is taken into account.

The Revenue Inspection Charge is aligned with the Zones 1-6 Pay as you go (PAYG) daily cap and is currently set at £16.30. It is applied only when a customer has failed to touch in and has been inspected by a Revenue Inspector using a RID device.

phil66 · 10 Aug 2026

ainsworth74 said:
Let us know how you get on and if you need any other guidance!

Absolutely, in this scenario you should tap out as normal and then sort things out afterwards.

I think that's a fair summary yes!

Yes my understanding is that this is all done at the back office at the end of the day and that the scanners are basically just checking if the card has been touched in or if the card is blacklisted. I think if the card hasn't been touched in it applies a maximum journey charge (so you might end up with two) but you could obviously phone the helpline and correct it. @MikeWh is the man for this sort of thing though! I'm just half remembering stuff I've been told before

But the main thing for the OP is that they appear to have been charged a completely bogus PF as it seems like they absolutely had touched in and therefore were 100% valid for travel and absolutely should appeal it again and all the way to the third stage if needed.

Thanks to everyone for your excellent help and advice! will draft a second appeal either tonight or tomorrow morning, will let you know how it turns out, cheers

WesternLancer · 10 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
Thanks to everyone for your excellent help and advice! will draft a second appeal either tonight or tomorrow morning, will let you know how it turns out, cheers

You can post your draft wording of that stage 2 appeal here before you send it - people will happily check it for you if that will help

MikeWh · 10 Aug 2026

@phil66 Can you post a copy of your journey history expanded to show all touches, please. It might help in deciding what to put in the appeal.

ainsworth74 said:
@MikeWh is the man for this sort of thing though! I'm just half remembering stuff I've been told before

If you haven't touched in then you will get a revenue inspection charge, which as the FOI quoted says is £16.30, the zone 1-6 daily cap. I'm not sure what happens if you touch out - it might not charge again as it will see the inspection charge. I need someone to be a guinea pig here, but knowing where a RID might be encountered makes it an awkward thing to arrange.

signed said:
Interestingly no mention of the bus difference

The request was clearly relating to zonal based travel, thus trains. The whole bus scenario is completely different. The RID downloads all cards touched in on that journey from the bus computer when the inspector gets on. If your card isn't on that list it's a pretty much slam dunk penalty fare. Just about the only mitigation is if you touched in at the very beginning of the route and the computer hadn't started the new journey yet.

gray1404 · 10 Aug 2026

This is going to some really strange but look at the response from the first appeal. The letter does not actually expressly state that the first appeal has not been successful or given any reason as to why.

Tetchytyke · 11 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
the other items i've attached below.

Your name is visible on the appeal rejection letter.

gray1404 said:
The letter does not actually expressly state that the first appeal has not been successful or given any reason as to why.

It's just the usual **** you get from these first stage appeals people. Everything is a boilerplate where you drag and drop statements into a letter, some of which may make sense and most of which don't.

Reading between the lines, they seem to have rejected it on the basis that the OP didn't show a valid ticket. Which is factually incorrect.

There's no evidence that the appeals administrator has even read the appeal properly, let alone understood it.

The first stage railway appeals companies make the parking industry look honest and competent.

Just to add to the advice for the OP, when writing an appeal assume that the person reading your letter has the same IQ and reading ability as your pet cat. Words of one syllable. Keep it simple. Very simple.

I am appealing my Penalty Fare. This was issued on the grounds that I did not show a valid ticket. This is factually incorrect. I did show a valid Contactless card which had been touched in correctly at Slough. This is the evidence from the TfL website which shows I had touched in correctly at Slough.

furlong · 11 Aug 2026

You should also - separately - pursue a complaint with GWR and seek financial compensation. In the first instance, they should treat this as a disciplinary matter.

It is a basic shortcoming of the system that neither passengers nor GWR staff are given access to live information about contactless card taps(*). They were not in a position to answer your original question. Every Authorised Collector of Penalty Fares must know that they may not issue a Penalty Fare in the circumstances you described as the industry has chosen not to provide them with a way to check the validity of a contactless ticket and so they cannot determine that it was invalid as the Penalty Fare regulations require.

(*) Install the Tfl Go app, link it to your contactless card, and often you'll see information in the app about the journey it is guessing you are making during that journey. They is a delay and in my experience it often persists in guessing impossible or ridiculous journeys but it might have shown enough for you to confirm yourself that the touch in had registered. This doesn't help if nothing shows there as the information is not guaranteed to appear in a timely manner.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2026 ==

MikeWh said:
If you haven't touched in then you will get a revenue inspection charge, which as the FOI quoted says is £16.30, the zone 1-6 daily cap.

I doubt they had that equipment available. If they had, and it had been used, the training associated with it would have told them that that's all they needed to do and they could not ALSO issue a PF as that revenue inspection charge IS the penalty and it has to wait to take into account possible delayed reporting of touches.

Haywain · 11 Aug 2026

furlong said:
In the first instance, they should treat this as a disciplinary matter.

That is no business of a customer.

phil66 · 15 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
Hi, I was issued a fine 3/8 by GWR at Paddington and would be grateful for and help / advice with my dispute.

I was travelling from Slough station to Paddington station and then going on to Waterloo. The "tap and go" machines at Slough were all closed except for one on which the gate was already open. I tapped the machine with my contactless card anyway and carried on thru, i wasn't entirely sure if it had registered, but was hoping i might be able to pay at the other end if it hadn't.

Upon reaching Paddington i informed the officials at the tap and go gate that i wasn't absolutely sure if my card had registered at Slough and was there any way for them to check and they said no you shouldn't have got on the train if you weren't totally sure you had a ticket so they issued me a fine, having done that they then opened the gate for me and i proceeded with my journey.

Having later checked my TfL statement it seems as though my card had registered at the Slough tap and go as i have been charged for the journey from Slough thru to Waterloo. I'm wondering if i should carry on appealing this fine or whether to just cut my losses and pay it, as GWR have already dismissed my first appeal .Thank you for reading and for any advice you may be able to offer, Phil.

Hi, thank you everyone for all the responses here, youve all been so helpful. good news is i got a response yesterday saying they had reviewed my second appeal and decided to close the case, it seems the TfL statement i uploaded was the deciding factor, i feel lucky i had that evidence available otherwise i wouldve been steamrollered into paying for sure. anyway, their response is attached for your perusal if u r interested. thank you all so much again, if you have a tip jar let me know and i will gladly donate to show my appreciation ❤️ take care, p.

phil66 · 15 Aug 2026

Tetchytyke said:
Your name is visible on the appeal rejection letter.

It's just the usual **** you get from these first stage appeals people. Everything is a boilerplate where you drag and drop statements into a letter, some of which may make sense and most of which don't.

Reading between the lines, they seem to have rejected it on the basis that the OP didn't show a valid ticket. Which is factually incorrect.

There's no evidence that the appeals administrator has even read the appeal properly, let alone understood it.

The first stage railway appeals companies make the parking industry look honest and competent.

Just to add to the advice for the OP, when writing an appeal assume that the person reading your letter has the same IQ and reading ability as your pet cat. Words of one syllable. Keep it simple. Very simple.

I am appealing my Penalty Fare. This was issued on the grounds that I did not show a valid ticket. This is factually incorrect. I did show a valid Contactless card which had been touched in correctly at Slough. This is the evidence from the TfL website which shows I had touched in correctly at Slough.

thank you, OOPS!! have now edited 1st appeal letter to remove my details

Egg Centric · 15 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
If you have a tip jar let me know and i will gladly donate to show my appreciation ❤️ take care, p.

If you buy your next train ticket through the link at the top of the site - ie from https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ - there is a tip jar at checkout but this is strictly optional, don't feel under any obligation!

MikeWh · 15 Aug 2026

Argh!!!!

For future reference, please ensure you validate throughout your journey.

Oh for goodness sake. That is asking for complications at places like Farringdon. Why can't the railway get their act together about how contactless PAYG works.

phil66 · 16 Aug 2026

Egg Centric said:
If you buy your next train ticket through the link at the top of the site - ie from https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ - there is a tip jar at checkout but this is strictly optional, don't feel under any obligation!

hey thank you for the heads up

ainsworth74 · 18 Aug 2026

phil66 said:
Hi, thank you everyone for all the responses here, youve all been so helpful. good news is i got a response yesterday saying they had reviewed my second appeal and decided to close the case, it seems the TfL statement i uploaded was the deciding factor, i feel lucky i had that evidence available otherwise i wouldve been steamrollered into paying for sure. anyway, their response is attached for your perusal if u r interested. thank you all so much again, if you have a tip jar let me know and i will gladly donate to show my appreciation ❤️ take care, p.

Excellent news and thanks for coming back to let us know. It's always nice to know what happens

Fined by GWR at Paddington, not sure if its worth appealing

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