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Longest journey in the UK to run with stock that lacks toilet facilities
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Kite159
Veteran Member
Reading to Abbey Wood at around 90 minutes to start the ball rolling.
Although the only people who might do that end to end are on TfL issued passes which allow use of the Elizabeth line but not GWR services at Reading.
Although the only people who might do that end to end are on TfL issued passes which allow use of the Elizabeth line but not GWR services at Reading.
TheSmiths82
Member
Not sure if it counts but if we are counting the Elizabeth line then can we count the Metrolink since it mainly runs on ex BR track? The service from East Didsbury to Rochdale is mostly old BR track (although the route didn't exist before the tram) and takes 1.5 hours, but there are places to break the journey for an easy toilet break such as Victoria and considering it will only be a few minutes wait for the next tram perhaps it can't be counted.
Am I right in thinking that Southern have a fleet of trains with no toilets? (or one of the southern operators).
Am I right in thinking that Southern have a fleet of trains with no toilets? (or one of the southern operators).
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
But absolutely no one (if they’re sensible) gets on a tram system expecting a toilet though and that’s the key difference whereas a person very likely might when boarding a tram.
TheSmiths82
Member
That is true but can the same be said about the Elizabeth line? Although when I first used it I did expect them to be toilets as I thought it was more like a high frequency trains service considering a lot them go as far out as Reading.
Farigiraf
Member
If we limit it to train services that don't have significantly faster alternatives:
- Brentwood to Heathrow T5 (1h 24)
- Taplow to Abbey Wood (1h 13)
- (a few years from now) Treherbert to Cardiff Bay (1h 6)
- Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone (57min)
- Southport to Liverpool South Parkway (1h)
Outside NR, tube services to Epping, Amersham, Watford, Chesham and Upminster from parts of zone 1 can take up to an hour. Theoretically if you live near Cockfosters and want to get to Heathrow, surviving 1h 40 on the Piccadilly line is probably the easiest option with luggage.
Plus tram routes to Toton Lane, Bury, Rochdale and Fleetwood.
- Brentwood to Heathrow T5 (1h 24)
- Taplow to Abbey Wood (1h 13)
- (a few years from now) Treherbert to Cardiff Bay (1h 6)
- Moorgate to Watton-at-Stone (57min)
- Southport to Liverpool South Parkway (1h)
Outside NR, tube services to Epping, Amersham, Watford, Chesham and Upminster from parts of zone 1 can take up to an hour. Theoretically if you live near Cockfosters and want to get to Heathrow, surviving 1h 40 on the Piccadilly line is probably the easiest option with luggage.
Plus tram routes to Toton Lane, Bury, Rochdale and Fleetwood.
Cricketer8for9
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Aldgate to Chesham? Epping to West Ruislip?
norbitonflyer
Established Member
South Eastern, with its 376s and 707s.
Failed Unit
Established Member
The Elizabeth Line in interesting as I don’t know which stations have toilets, however it know that it was always thought that if you are caught short you just get off and onto the next one. That said some of the routes are only every 30 minutes.
Do other TfL routes have no toilets? Clearly the Richmond - Stratford ones are toiletless, just not sure about the ones out of Liverpool Street to places like Enfield. Never enjoyed Waterloo - Reading on a 455.
The 717s are the only routes now in the GTR region I can think of with no toilets. I remember Northern once had a 156 which was formed on 2x “57” ends while the “52” were getting repaired. They kept it on short runs.
Do other TfL routes have no toilets? Clearly the Richmond - Stratford ones are toiletless, just not sure about the ones out of Liverpool Street to places like Enfield. Never enjoyed Waterloo - Reading on a 455.
The 717s are the only routes now in the GTR region I can think of with no toilets. I remember Northern once had a 156 which was formed on 2x “57” ends while the “52” were getting repaired. They kept it on short runs.
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Farigiraf
Member
The 707s have had toilets retrofitted, and there aren't any routes exclusively booked to be run by 376s. Though if you're unlucky enough to get two 376-operated services in a row then you could face up to an hour on one from Gravesend/Sevenoaks into one of the London Terminals, the only alternative being to get off at an intermediate station if you really need to and waiting 30min for the next service.
Toilet fitting on 707s is planned, but has not happened yet.
WelshBluebird
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Is it worth noting the kind of journey too? 90 mins on an Elizabeth line train running through Central London with regular stops and a high frequency is very very different (and much better) than say an hour where much of the journey is in less built up areas, with fewer stations and a lower frequency.
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VT 390
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No TfL operated rail service has on board toilets (Underground, Overground, Elizabeth Line, DLR, Trams).
I have never known a class 153 to operate on their own without a class 156 in passenger service, but the class 153 do have a small toilet fitted and in use anyway.
Failed Unit
Established Member
The answer will of course be different to diagramed without a toilet versus not having a toilet (due to failure). I suspect most routes operated by units with 1 toilet such as the 156s have ran without one. Some of those are long distance such as Liverpool - Norwich.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
I was on a Paddington - Gt Malvern Class 166 once on which no toilet was available. Fortunately I was only going to Slough.
GW43125
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And even now, with 701s quite often running around with no toilets...
brad465
Veteran Member
Any Cannon St rounders with one of these classes allocated would be up there among the longest; the Sidcup rounders appear to be 102-105 mins (1h42-1h45). Of course in reality nobody is doing the whole journey other than the driver (unless that changes mid-journey at Slade Green), or a RailUK forum member doing a London challenge.
boiledbeans2
Member
I'm not sure if going to Slough is fortunate.
DelW
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In Wales, TfW's 153/3s have an accessible toilet and until a year or so ago, they often operated solo on the Heart of Wales (~4hrs Shrewsbury <> Swansea). These days they mostly operate as pairs, either with a 153/9 (no accessible toilet) or as AT (active travel) sets.
They will only be toiletless in the event of equipment failures.
VT 390
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Yes and until relatively recently TfW used class 153 on their own on many more routes, some of which had no toilet available though these were usually short journeys.
I was specifically referring to the class 153 with ScotRail on the West Highland line in my previous post.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Point taken - I was actually going to Eton College to see my son.
(No - we're not that posh - he wasn't a pupil there: he was just singing in a concert in the chapel)
sjm77
Member
In the 1980s British Rail ran a Leicester - Scarborough on summer Saturdays (it went out via York but the return was down the Yorkshire Coast Line). Originally it was normally hauled by a 37 +Mk2 coaches (with toilets), however this was swapped to a toiletless DMU in the final years!
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Ah, yes! I remember that. I used it to ‘tick off’ the Anlaby Road curve (avoiding Hull) and another rare curve around Milford Junction.
Meanwhile, I would think that Elizabeth Line Reading-Liverpool Street/Moorgate, changing underground to GN’s Moorgate-Stevenage on a Class 717 wouldn’t be one to recommend.
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sjm77
Member
Yes, that is the curve at Gascoigne Wood that allows a train to travel from Selby to Pontefract Baghill, not normally used by passengers services. Actually Pontefract Baghill was the first stop after Bridlington on this service which made a big change from Nafferton or Driffield!
Farigiraf
Member
A side note: that curve is actually used semi-regularly by passenger trains. There's the daily 22:21 from Leeds to Hull, diverting via Castleford and Gascoigne Wood for route retention purposes, and diversionary routes (such as the ones running today from Dewsbury to Hull) also use it.
Johnny Lewis
Member
It's *ahem* London Euston to Stirling, isn't it? About 6 hours!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think with routes like that you need to consider that it really isn't intended for people travelling from Rochdale to East Didsbury as almost nobody would want to actually do that (and if they do they can pop out to the loo at Victoria and lose at worst 12 minutes). Similarly the Liz really isn't intended for actually travelling from Reading to Abbey Wood and almost nobody will actually do this; Readingites (!) will take a fast to Paddington and change there as it will save a lot of time, and hardly anyone will want to do that anyway even if it was a direct nonstop service. Things like Metrolink pair arms for operational convenience, not because people will make the end to end journey particularly often.
The two Merseyrail examples of Southport to Liverpool Central and Chester to Liverpool Central are probably at the longer end of journeys that people actually make often in significant numbers. The former is 47 minutes and the latter is exactly 45. Even crossing onto the Hunts Cross branch is probably a bad example because hardly anyone actually does, the through services have pretty much a complete passenger turnover at Central, which is why it's only really the halving of frequency in the evening and on Sundays that is causing moaning while it's an Ormskirk-Hunts X pair, people aren't moaning in large numbers about what direct journey opportunities have been lost (nor celebrating those gained).