Why is TfL's web site rubbish

Kevin51 · 9 Aug 2026

Accessing the underground timetables is quite useful but do TfL make it so difficult. Trying to help plan for somebody with limited abilities to get from Paddington to Waterloo. They have chosen to go by Bakerloo Line. I checked and saw that the Jubilee at Waterloo is step free and the Bakerloo to Jubilee at Baker Street is a level interchange. So I just wanted to compare journey times by either route. No particular day, just see what the journey times are.
Log on to the Bakerloo line time table and all I get is the line is suspended Harrow and Wealstone to Queen's Park. What on Earth is the issue with seeing the time table for a typical day. I am allowed to see the Jubilee time table for Baker Street to Waterloo but only for 5.22 up to 5.56, not that the journey time will be different at mid day. It take 8 minutes Baker Street to Waterloo but by Bakerloo it appears to be a state secret. And after 6 am on the Jubilee also.

RailUK Forums

AlterEgo · 9 Aug 2026

I don't understand why you need to see a timetable for a high intensity metro service. There are trains every few minutes. It's turn up and go. Google Maps or Citymapper will give you good journey time estimates.

SECR 65 · 9 Aug 2026

The working timetables are published on the TfL website, in case you aren't aware. Not much use for everyday journey planning but if you're going to 2tph Amersham...

Working Timetables (WTT)

Working timetables are rail industry timetables. They show all movements on the Tube network including empty trains and those coming in and out of depots

tfl.gov.uk

Roger1973 · 9 Aug 2026

Apart from the start and end of day, most Underground lines are so frequent, it's journey time / frequency that most people think about rather than wanting to see 'a timetable'.

The TFL journey planner can suffer from there being almost too many options for some journeys, but you can set some options like 'fewest changes' or 'step free' or 'least walking'

(Although for 'step free' for Paddington to Waterloo it suggested 23 bus to Green Park then Jubilee Line.)

But yes, it didn't seem to have anything as 'timetable' option for the Bakerloo line.

Horizon22 · 9 Aug 2026

Because once you get past about 12tph (which core journeys like the one suggested are and indeed are even more frequent), you have at least a train every 5 minutes so it is incredibly frequent.

I don't see how it is "rubbish"; just use the Journey Planner for the time you want.

Hadders · 9 Aug 2026

You don't need a timetable for a high intensity metro service. With 20+ trains an hour it's turn up and go. If you want to know how long a journey takes then a a journey planner is best.

pokemonsuper9 · 9 Aug 2026

Because TfL don't really care about publishing times since to the vast majority they're meaningless.
Just view them on bustimes.org, that's what I do (even for the lines where the timetable page doesn't work, searching a date and time at a station does)

boiledbeans2 · 10 Aug 2026

TfL's website is indeed rubbish - specifically the single fare finder.

Single fare finder

Find fares between any two stations in London

tfl.gov.uk

The searching is painful. For example, if I wanted the origin to be Heathrow Terminal 4 NR, I'd start typing "Heat", Heathrow T4 NR is not a suggested option, instead Dagenham Heathway appears in the list.
I type "Heathr", there are 4 options, but T4 NR isn't an option.
I type "Heathrow", then suddenly the options increase to 6 and finally T4 NR is an option.

Type "Harrow", and "South Harrow" is ranked above "Harrow & Wealdstone".
If someone really wanted "South Harrow", they would probably start the search by typing "South..."

The searching options logic makes no sense.

Pokelet · 10 Aug 2026

TfL website and App are surprisingly good. Plenty of options to filter on and really great maps for accessibility. Granted the network isn't as accessible as it would be if it were built today.

Outside of first and last trains, why would you need a timetable? Bakerloo runs at a 3 minute frequency and Jubilee 2 minutes in the central area. It would be an unnecessarily long document and ultimately pointless.

boiledbeans2 · 10 Aug 2026

Pokelet said:
[...]

Outside of first and last trains, why would you need a timetable? Bakerloo runs at a 3 minute frequency and Jubilee 2 minutes in the central area. It would be an unnecessarily long document and ultimately pointless.

The first/last train page is also painful to use... Too many clicks.

For example, if I wanted to know the last WB District train from Westminster, I have to go this website

District line timetable

Timetable for District line in London.

tfl.gov.uk

Choose a "From" (Westminster)
Choose a "To"... (e.g. Barons Court)
Choose a day of the week
Choose "last train" (instead of first train).
Then the website blurts out the last 7 trains, and I have to scroll to the bottom to find out the true last train.

It could be made simpler. Just choose a station "Westminster" with a single click, where it lists all the first and last trains, like how Google maps lists a shop opening time.
E.g., it could list...
Last train from Westminster
Monday - Friday
xx:xx to Ealing Broadway
xx:xx to Richmond
xx:xx to Wimbledon
xx:xx to Upminster
etc.

Saturday
xx:xx (repeat of above options)

Sunday
xx:xx (repeat of above options)

Dstock7080 · 10 Aug 2026

boiledbeans2 said:
The first/last train page is also painful to use... Too many clicks.

For example, if I wanted to know the last WB District train from Westminster, I have to go this website

District line timetable

Timetable for District line in London.

tfl.gov.uk

Or use the dedicated First and Last trains pages:

First & last Tube

The times of first and last Tube services

tfl.gov.uk

DynamicSpirit · 10 Aug 2026

I also think the TfL website is pretty rubbish in many ways. I agree with others that you'd rarely need to see an actual timetable for most tube lines, but I DO often want to see what the journey time between two stations on one line is. That's really hard to see with the journey planner because the planner pads out so much walking time (useless to me because I can walk in a fraction of the time the planner seems to think), and doesn't make it at all clear which part of the total time is spent actually on the train. The result of the excessive padding is that often when there are alternative routes, it's almost impossible from the planner to see which route is actually going to be quickest for me.

Looking up buses is also problematic. Often when planning to go somewhere by bus, the first thing I want to see is a map of the bus network in the area, so I can see where the buses actually go. That's OK-ish if it's one of the places TfL do spider maps for (but personally I'd find a geographical map much easier to read), but is impossible if it's an area not covered by a spider map.

Just typing your origin/destination can be a nightmare because of too many irrelevant suggestions. One example recently is I wanted to check how long it would take on the 229 bus to get from Abbey Wood station to a bus stop called Northumberland Park (in Erith, nowhere near Northumberland Park station). If you type in Northumberland Park, the site presents you with loads of options and no way to tell which of the options is the 229 bus stop.

Live bus arrivals is in principle good - so I can see if it's worth walking to the bus stop right now. But the problem is, you typically have to go through so many clicks and option selections to get to the the bus stop you want.

And finally there's the withdrawal of the tube disruption maps, which means you can no longer see at a glance whether the tube/trains are running normally on the route you want to travel on.

In a way it seems extraordinary - the TfL site is so big, and has so much on it, yet somehow manages to make it so hard to do basic journey planning.

Pakenhamtrain · 10 Aug 2026

The thing that annoys me with the TFL website is I can't log into Oyster from Australia.

Mawkie · 10 Aug 2026

SECR 65 said:
The working timetables are published on the TfL website, in case you aren't aware. Not much use for everyday journey planning but if you're going to 2tph Amersham...

Working Timetables (WTT)

Working timetables are rail industry timetables. They show all movements on the Tube network including empty trains and those coming in and out of depots

tfl.gov.uk

This is the answer to almost every query above, but... if you search for "TfL timetables" it doesn't take you here. That's by design; TfL know these working timetables don't always correlate with actual timings due to engineering work etc. So they guide the public to more "public friendly"* and up to date pages.

*I say public friendly as a large proportion of the public can't (or don't want to) read timetables. They were common on stations when I was young, so got used to reading them, but I don't recall seeing them prominantly displayed anymore.

styles · 10 Aug 2026

It's a bit like how the Travelcard prices PDF has been made less accessible. Searching the site for the prices directs you to a form where you enter your start and end zones and it tells you the price.

This is what the cast majority of passengers are wanting, rather than a few pages of tables showing all the Travelcard rates at once.

The information like like and the working timetable are deprioritised because most people don't need them, but they are available if you ask or you find the right page.

Peter Mugridge · 10 Aug 2026

A few months ago they got rid of the very clear weekend engineering works Tube map from the website and you now have to scroll through and open up a list, which is not always very clearly written, instead of being able to see at a glance which lines are affected on a given weekend.

Mawkie · 10 Aug 2026

Peter Mugridge said:
A few months ago they got rid of the very clear weekend engineering works Tube map from the website and you now have to scroll through and open up a list, which is not always very clearly written, instead of being able to see at a glance which lines are affected on a given weekend.

Agreed, this is a backwards step. Though I do seem to remember the greyed out maps being withdrawn in 2017, so perhaps they reinstated after that time before removal again recently.

Horizon22 · 10 Aug 2026

Mawkie said:
This is the answer to almost every query above, but... if you search for "TfL timetables" it doesn't take you here. That's by design; TfL know these working timetables don't always correlate with actual timings due to engineering work etc. So they guide the public to more "public friendly"* and up to date pages.

*I say public friendly as a large proportion of the public can't (or don't want to) read timetables. They were common on stations when I was young, so got used to reading them, but I don't recall seeing them prominantly displayed anymore.

Well this is indeed a very enthusiast problem; the overwhelming majority of the public do not care.

DarloRich · 10 Aug 2026

Underground trains have a timetable? They come so quickl........... oh there's one that I assumed it was start at X end at Y!

Goldfish62 · 10 Aug 2026

DarloRich said:
Underground trains have a timetable? They come so quickl........... oh there's one that I assumed it was start at X end at Y!

You're not far wrong. They have working timetables which show each individual scheduled journey, although even that doesn't show times for every station. In the central area and other parts where frequencies are sufficiently high the service is run on a frequency basis rather than exact times, ie if the service is scheduled at every 2-3 minutes then the actual service will be run as close as possible to that frequency, largely irrespective of how punctual to the working timetable individual trains are. The London bus network is run on the same basis.

DynamicSpirit · 10 Aug 2026

Goldfish62 said:
The London bus network is run on the same basis.

Not entirely. During the day, and for services that run very frequently, buses do indeed appear to run on that basis, and the public timetables shown eg. at bus stops tend to just say things like 'every 10 minutes'. But for less frequent services tihe stops do show actual departure times - and in those cases the buses do usually approximately stick to the advertised times. From experience, I would say that typically seems to be done where buses that run every 20 minutes or less - which s a few routes in outer London during the day, more routes in the evenings and I would guess pretty much all night buses.

Kilopylae · 10 Aug 2026

Goldfish62 said:
In the central area and other parts where frequencies are sufficiently high the service is run on a frequency basis rather than exact times, ie if the service is scheduled at every 2-3 minutes then the actual service will be run as close as possible to that frequency, largely irrespective of how punctual to the working timetable individual trains are.

Hence trains being held to regulate the service.

Statto · 10 Aug 2026

Funnily enough bustimes.org show London Underground timetables on there site

London Underground (TfL)

bustimes.org

cats_five · 11 Aug 2026

Pokelet said:
<snip>

Outside of first and last trains, why would you need a timetable? Bakerloo runs at a 3 minute frequency and Jubilee 2 minutes in the central area. It would be an unnecessarily long document and ultimately pointless.

Certainly no need in zones 1 & 2, but for journeys to much of the outer zones I think you do.

rmHawk765 · 11 Aug 2026

TfL does publish user-friendly timetables: https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/timetables/

These are typically more useful than the WTT because the WTT does not show times for every station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2026 ==

boiledbeans2 said:
TfL's website is indeed rubbish - specifically the single fare finder.

Oyster Fares Central has a much better alternative to this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Aug 2026 ==

DynamicSpirit said:
But for less frequent services tihe stops do show actual departure times - and in those cases the buses do usually approximately stick to the advertised times. From experience, I would say that typically seems to be done where buses that run every 20 minutes or less - which s a few routes in outer London during the day, more routes in the evenings and I would guess pretty much all night buses.

Well my local 2bph London bus does anything but sticking to the timetable... contrary to the nearby 4bph bus which is much better (and I don't bother using a timetable for it).

Mawkie · 11 Aug 2026

rmHawk765 said:
TfL does publish user-friendly timetables:

Unless it's just me, there seems to be a bug on the Piccadilly 'Timetable' here. I can't select anything except Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I've included a pic below illustrating the comparison between Pic and Northern lines. Can anyone else confirm before I report it to TfL?

Edit: reported internally.

rmHawk765 · 11 Aug 2026

Mawkie said:
Unless it's just me, there seems to be a bug on the Piccadilly 'Timetable' here. I can't select anything except Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I've included a pic below illustrating the comparison between Pic and Northern lines. Can anyone else confirm before I report it to TfL?

Yes, it can be buggy sometimes, and the most bizzare part is that the Monday-Thursday timetables are completely identical on each day for all lines...

thruud · 11 Aug 2026

I knew I'd become a London 'local' when I got to the platform and tutted when it was a 3 minute wait for the next tube train

johncrossley · 11 Aug 2026

DynamicSpirit said:
Not entirely. During the day, and for services that run very frequently, buses do indeed appear to run on that basis, and the public timetables shown eg. at bus stops tend to just say things like 'every 10 minutes'. But for less frequent services tihe stops do show actual departure times - and in those cases the buses do usually approximately stick to the advertised times. From experience, I would say that typically seems to be done where buses that run every 20 minutes or less - which s a few routes in outer London during the day, more routes in the evenings and I would guess pretty much all night buses.

I think on routes better than every 15 minutes in the daytime, they keep buses at even intervals rather than stick to a timetable, and I believe they even follow this principle at other times of day when buses are less frequent.

Deepgreen · 11 Aug 2026

Unless you are using one of the very few less frequent routes (Chesham, perhaps) then timetables are not required. 99.9% of users would never use a timetable per se. As a ex-LU/TfL railway planner (not involved with the web site) the ethos has always been the provide a turn-up-and-go service with trains every few minutes. Even in the 1950s, the District line at one point operated a 40tph service in the central area!

Why is TfL's web site rubbish

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