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How would Selby (Great Heck accident) be different in 2026?

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andy33gmail

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I'm aware that safety has moved on significantly over the decades - more crashworthy rolling stock, signalling, comms, better processes etc

The Selby disaster always felt a bit frustrating in that despite a call being placed to the 999 handler, there wasn't enough time to start the passenger and freight train performing an emergency stop early enough to save as many lives as we would wish

So my hypothetical scenario is:
-If the driver fell asleep in similar circumstances on a motorway, with a similar timetable
-In a more modern vehicle (e-Call, lane assist), with more modern stock, with modern communications (What3Words, GSM-R), better highway standards (...maybe not?)
-How would things play out?
 
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brad465

brad465

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I don't know if it's just me, but I've often found 999 calls to the police take an awfully long time to initiate a response. In 2018 called 999 about some troublesome passengers at Paddock Wood (I don't think 61016 was widespread at this point), and the call went on for something like 10 minutes while the handler asked for all sorts of details. I've had multiple equivalently long 999 calls since for non-rail incidents too.

Based on this, I wouldn't be surprised if in a Selby-equivalent situation today a 999 call would also take long enough that a collision takes place halfway through; a 5-10 minute call before a response could easily be the difference between stopping all trains and failing to prevent a collision, depending on train positions at the time.
 
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edwin_m

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Crash barriers were extended at the Great Heck and similar road-over-rail crossings, making this type of collision less likely. However, there are still occasions where road vehicles end up on railway lines.
 
I

IanXC

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18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,609
WestCountry said:
December 2023:
RAIB - Collision between a passenger train and a fallen tree at Broughty Ferry

A member of the public phoned Network Rail directly 12 minutes before the accident, but the signaller control didn't answer their phone despite repeated attempts by the call handler.

Phoning the police would have been the same process plus a couple more minutes to forward the message through to NR.

So, no progress.
Click to expand...

The call was to the control not directly to a signaller, the control would then have had to call the signaller to initiate a stop on the line.
 
bramling

bramling

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Hertfordshire / Teesdale
andy33gmail said:
I'm aware that safety has moved on significantly over the decades - more crashworthy rolling stock, signalling, comms, better processes etc

The Selby disaster always felt a bit frustrating in that despite a call being placed to the 999 handler, there wasn't enough time to start the passenger and freight train performing an emergency stop early enough to save as many lives as we would wish

So my hypothetical scenario is:
-If the driver fell asleep in similar circumstances on a motorway, with a similar timetable
-In a more modern vehicle (e-Call, lane assist), with more modern stock, with modern communications (What3Words, GSM-R), better highway standards (...maybe not?)
-How would things play out?
Click to expand...

I suspect it would still have happened, but perhaps for the provision of crash barriers at certain bridges as a direct response to this incident.

I’ve always felt this was one of those incidents where the railway just got incredible unlucky. Whilst the set of circumstances was forseeable, it was incredibly unlucky that the set of circumstances came together in this way.

ISTR there wasn’t really time for any 999 call to have been able to prevent the accident, though it might have been possible had there been more time.

Had the vehicle driver come off the motorway at any other spot then it would have been just a run-of-the-mill road mishap.
 
61653 HTAFC

61653 HTAFC

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Modern safety features such as lane-keeping assist and driver-facing cameras almost certainly make an accident like Great Heck less likely to happen, and it's possible that had such a system existed at the time it may have alerted the driver that he was going off the road, prompting him to correct his course...

Whether that driver would be the sort of person to ensure he had a vehicle with those features (and whether he wouldn't disable them before each journey if that option was available) however...
 
GRALISTAIR

GRALISTAIR

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bramling said:
I suspect it would still have happened, but perhaps for the provision of crash barriers at certain bridges as a direct response to this incident.
Click to expand...
Yes crash barriers have been a good thing and must have helped.
bramling said:
I’ve always felt this was one of those incidents where the railway just got incredible unlucky.
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Most definitely. The railways were not to blame however much istr the media initially knee jerking and blaming them. Just incredibly unlucky.

61653 HTAFC said:
Modern safety features such as lane-keeping assist and driver-facing cameras almost certainly make an accident like Great Heck less likely to happen, and it's possible that had such a system existed at the time it may have alerted the driver that he was going off the road, prompting him to correct his course...

Whether that driver would be the sort of person to ensure he had a vehicle with those features (and whether he wouldn't disable them before each journey if that option was available) however...
Click to expand...
Quite!!
 
E

edwin_m

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GRALISTAIR said:
Most definitely. The railways were not to blame however much istr the media initially knee jerking and blaming them. Just incredibly unlucky.
Click to expand...
...but could have been a lot more unlucky if it had been a busy passenger train in the middle of the day, not a mostly empty one in the early morning.
 
Cach17

Cach17

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To be a tad facetious, there'd probably be a lot more people on the internet engaging in wild speculation about the circumstances.
 
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