I may be wrong but happy to be corrected as I have passed Basford Hall heading into Crewe on the left hand side by where the virtual quarry bit is, it appears that there is stacks of piled up ex wagons with no wheelsets on am I correct or just imagining it and if I am correct does anyone know the numbers of them ?
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SarahSanderson
Member
Adrian Barr
Member
607006 is still coded as an FTA in TOPS.
The difference between an FTA and and FSA is that the FTA wagons were built as "inners" and the FSAs as "outers."
From the LTSV website profile on FSA/FTA Bogie Container Wagons:
Looking at some Freightliner consists, FSAs either operate as a pair (with the lower height couplings in between them) or as a group of 4 wagons FSA-FTA-FTA-FSA, with standard height couplings at each end and the lower-height couplings in between. 607006 is currently marshalled in 4V30 London Gateway - Wentloog, in a 4-set of FSA 608406, FTA 607063, FTA 607006 and FSA 608405.
Unless the wagons show signs of being physically modified, then given the discrepancy with TOPS I assume this is a coding error on the wagon (not particularly unusual in BR days, when for example a TUA might be incorrectly labelled as a TTA on the wagon itself).
All 607xxx are FTA in TOPS and all 608xxx are FSA
SarahSanderson
Member
Many thanks @Adrian Barr for your informative reply.
Jr_Vandalas
Member
I am hoping this is the right thread to talk about this, however a while ago I have come across a unique diagram for an International wagon which had a TOPS code allowing it to run in the UK. It was given CARKND IIA, given design IIE458 [E458] and only one member of this wagon lot was given this TOPS code. I cannot find any other information about these types of wagons so I am hoping someone here has the information for this. If possible, would anyone have any photos of what this type of wagon looked like, and a reasoning as to why it was given a UK TOPS allocation in the first place? Many thanks.
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eastwestdivide
Established Member
Intriguing. Have you got a date for the diagram? And what are those two things in the centre?
DBS92042
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Something was planned to be moved on 4O83 Bristol FLT to Marchwood today behind 66514. Not sure if this was all or just some of the stored wagons at Bristol FLT but ended up just being 0O83 with 66514 alone
43096
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It should be noted that those six FSAs listed above are Heavy Haul assets, not Freightliner.
Gloster
Veteran Member
E is an Open Wagon, f is for the British loading and permitted on ferries or in the tunnel, and s means 100 km/h. It has the common 6000 wheelbase, but the other dimensions are not typical of open wagons.
Jr_Vandalas
Member
Unfortunately not. I have tried finding the date from where I actually got the diagram from, and I cannot seem to find it. The best clue I have is that the book includes the old IP* series of TOPS codes for lots of the wagons on here, which indicates that it is pre-1990.
Not even I am sure myself. This diagram is a mystery to myself. From what I can tell is that there are elevated platforms within the wagon itself so has a small useful area. I think those things in the middle could be to do with support?
Could these wagons be for a very specific flow? As in purpose built for an unusual market?
Gloster
Veteran Member
My feeling is that it is possibly for railway equipment and may be a one-off or part of a very small fleet for such traffic. However, the 21 interoperability code does suggest otherwise.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
Worth asking the question over on rmweb? There's quite a few wagon experts there, and some people who worked at Dover back in the day
yorkshirerail
Member
Yes DB work all the Immingham to Drax services
GBRF work the Liverpool and Tyne Coal Terminal workings to Drax
Oxfordblues
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I don't have access to TOPS but I wonder if anyone on here could tell me the current location of the fleet of YKA Osprey wagons which I haven't seen at Hinksey Sidings for many months? Thanks in anticipation!
Class15
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Numbskull100
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15 IKA pairs are on 4M94 / 4L96.
Class15
Established Member
Thank you so much!
DBS92042
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On 29th May a number of ex-Freightliner FSA wagons were moved from Bristol FLT to Marchwood (as 4O83) for export to Ghana with 56094/302. Does anyone have numbers of these 20 FSA wagons please?
Photos on Romic's LinkedIn of them being loaded onto the ship: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/romi...y-completed-activity-7468587429042561025-5uU7
Photos on Romic's LinkedIn of them being loaded onto the ship: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/romi...y-completed-activity-7468587429042561025-5uU7
Rhysdabeast
Established Member
66559 +
608006 FSA
608019 FSA
608139 FSA
608140 FSA
608253 FSA
608254 FSA
608076 FSA
608077 FSA
608004 FSA
608003 FSA
608250 FSA
608249 FSA
608403 FSA
608313 FSA
608093 FSA
608094 FSA
608407 FSA
608408 FSA
608071 FSA
608072 FSA
DBS92042
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Amazing, thank you very much for that!
Adrian Barr
Member
Some Ospreys are back at Hinksey today - 15 of them arrived on a 6Y40 yesterday, loaded with scrap track panels from an engineering worksite near Theale.
The Osprey fleet are spread around the various LDCs, with most of them concentrated at Whitemoor / Doncaster / Carlisle.
Numbers are dwindling (roughly 120 in live pools, perhaps half in active use, with many out of service for repairs or maintenance) but they still seem to be the standard type used for the movement of scrap track panels.
Their use seems to be less frequent than it was, so perhaps it's becoming more common to break up the track on site and load the sleepers and rail separately into open wagons.
Oxfordblues
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Thanks Adrian. Yes, I saw a long rake of them today loaded in Hinksey Yard. They're nearly as old as me, being built in the 1950s. With no replacements in sight I wonder how much longer they'll stagger-on!
DBS92042
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66082 is taking 13 JRA wagons for scrap today on 6Z45 Wembley Yard to Kingsbury EMR. Presumably displaced by all the JNA/MMA wagons now.
The wagons are: 7067900429, 7067900338, 7067900858, 7067900676, 7067900502, 7067900049, 7067900585, 7067900643, 7067900981, 7067900635, 7067900791, 7067900783, 7067900882
The wagons are: 7067900429, 7067900338, 7067900858, 7067900676, 7067900502, 7067900049, 7067900585, 7067900643, 7067900981, 7067900635, 7067900791, 7067900783, 7067900882
Adrian Barr
Member
===========
JRA fleet update
===========
Yes, those JRAs were last used on the FCC spoil trains originating in the London area, before being displaced by newer JNAs (and also MMAs migrating south off the Dowlow traffic after Freightliner took over the Breedon contract). Following on from the info in the detailed post I made about the JRA fleet in July 2025, most of the JRAs on today's 6Z45 were last used on spoil trains to Forders in summer 2025 before being stored at Wembley, with other JRAs moving from Acton to Wembley in dribs and drabs in the last months of 2025.
There are 13 more JRAs at Wembley that should also move to Kingsbury in the near future.
Another 28 JRAs moved from Wembley to Rossington in late July, running as 6Z58 Wembley - Acton on 27/07, 6Z44 to Doncaster Belmont on 29/07 and then 6Z55 to Rossington later the same afternoon. It could be a storage move, although it's possible the wagons might end up being scrapped there, as there's an "Eco-Power Environmental" site at the end of the former colliery branch (where they loaded spoil for Roxby a few years back).
There was a one-off trial loading of scrap out of Rossington on 20th December when a 6Z77 16:00 Rossington - Tees ran with 19 MBAs / JNAs full of scrap, which reached Hartlepool Docks on 22nd December on a 6Z79 07:41 from Tees. If there are any more scrap trials out of Rossington, I think the JRAs are more likely to end up as the scrap metal in the wagons, rather than the wagons used to contain the scrap!
Incidentally, the 11 JRAs which disappeared through the tunnel to France in September 2024 (for unknown reasons) returned in October 2025, moving on a 6Z14 Dollands - Wembley on 30/10/25. These 11 became part of the batch of 28 wagons recently sent to Rossington.
*
Also on the topic of JRAs, 11 of these wagons were moved by power cars 43467 & 43423 from Fiddlers Ferry to Gascoigne Wood as 6E89 on 23/07/26 (a noteworthy move which caused some bafflement!). These 11 JRAs had been stored for almost 18 months at Fiddlers, and like the other JRAs, were wagons previously used by DB Cargo based at Acton for spoil traffic. They had moved from Wembley to Fiddlers via Warrington Arpley in February 2025. I believe Fiddlers Ferry is now cleared of stored wagons.
The power cars make a peculiar sight heading towards Barnsley at Meadowhall:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75464378@N04/55426769904/ (Photo: Gareth)
But look rather majestic in this drone shot at Horbury Junction:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_davis_photos/55414070433/ (Photo: Chris)
*
A set of 20 JRA wagons, which GBRF had been using on Bardon - Crawley services, has also been put into storage. After working the overnight 6Z54 Bardon - Crawley which arrived on 1st May, the set returned (as normal) empty to Tonbridge Yard as 6Y30. On 15th May the wagons departed for Wellingborough as a 6Z53, before onward movement to Barrow Hill on 21st May as 6E12.
The JRAs are seen to good effect in this shot of the 6Y30 Crawley - Tonbridge Yard behind 66693 on 27th March:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196408325@N05/55172233320/ (Photo: Zain)
Unless some JRAs are put back into use, the Bardon - Crawley flow is quite likely to have been the final revenue-earning duty for this wagon type.
*
Add in a few more stragglers from the JRA fleet at Acton and Tinsley (previously used on spoil traffic) and the whole JRA fleet is either stored out of traffic or waiting scrapping:
JRA location summary:
Kingsbury x13
Wembley (for Kingsbury) x13
Rossington x28
Gascoigne Wood x11
Barrow Hill x 20
Tinsley x6
Acton x4
JRA fleet update
===========
Yes, those JRAs were last used on the FCC spoil trains originating in the London area, before being displaced by newer JNAs (and also MMAs migrating south off the Dowlow traffic after Freightliner took over the Breedon contract). Following on from the info in the detailed post I made about the JRA fleet in July 2025, most of the JRAs on today's 6Z45 were last used on spoil trains to Forders in summer 2025 before being stored at Wembley, with other JRAs moving from Acton to Wembley in dribs and drabs in the last months of 2025.
There are 13 more JRAs at Wembley that should also move to Kingsbury in the near future.
Another 28 JRAs moved from Wembley to Rossington in late July, running as 6Z58 Wembley - Acton on 27/07, 6Z44 to Doncaster Belmont on 29/07 and then 6Z55 to Rossington later the same afternoon. It could be a storage move, although it's possible the wagons might end up being scrapped there, as there's an "Eco-Power Environmental" site at the end of the former colliery branch (where they loaded spoil for Roxby a few years back).
There was a one-off trial loading of scrap out of Rossington on 20th December when a 6Z77 16:00 Rossington - Tees ran with 19 MBAs / JNAs full of scrap, which reached Hartlepool Docks on 22nd December on a 6Z79 07:41 from Tees. If there are any more scrap trials out of Rossington, I think the JRAs are more likely to end up as the scrap metal in the wagons, rather than the wagons used to contain the scrap!
Incidentally, the 11 JRAs which disappeared through the tunnel to France in September 2024 (for unknown reasons) returned in October 2025, moving on a 6Z14 Dollands - Wembley on 30/10/25. These 11 became part of the batch of 28 wagons recently sent to Rossington.
*
Also on the topic of JRAs, 11 of these wagons were moved by power cars 43467 & 43423 from Fiddlers Ferry to Gascoigne Wood as 6E89 on 23/07/26 (a noteworthy move which caused some bafflement!). These 11 JRAs had been stored for almost 18 months at Fiddlers, and like the other JRAs, were wagons previously used by DB Cargo based at Acton for spoil traffic. They had moved from Wembley to Fiddlers via Warrington Arpley in February 2025. I believe Fiddlers Ferry is now cleared of stored wagons.
The power cars make a peculiar sight heading towards Barnsley at Meadowhall:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75464378@N04/55426769904/ (Photo: Gareth)
But look rather majestic in this drone shot at Horbury Junction:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_davis_photos/55414070433/ (Photo: Chris)
*
A set of 20 JRA wagons, which GBRF had been using on Bardon - Crawley services, has also been put into storage. After working the overnight 6Z54 Bardon - Crawley which arrived on 1st May, the set returned (as normal) empty to Tonbridge Yard as 6Y30. On 15th May the wagons departed for Wellingborough as a 6Z53, before onward movement to Barrow Hill on 21st May as 6E12.
The JRAs are seen to good effect in this shot of the 6Y30 Crawley - Tonbridge Yard behind 66693 on 27th March:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/196408325@N05/55172233320/ (Photo: Zain)
Unless some JRAs are put back into use, the Bardon - Crawley flow is quite likely to have been the final revenue-earning duty for this wagon type.
*
Add in a few more stragglers from the JRA fleet at Acton and Tinsley (previously used on spoil traffic) and the whole JRA fleet is either stored out of traffic or waiting scrapping:
JRA location summary:
Kingsbury x13
Wembley (for Kingsbury) x13
Rossington x28
Gascoigne Wood x11
Barrow Hill x 20
Tinsley x6
Acton x4
Freightmaster
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Yes - loads of German(80 prefix) and French (87 prefix) registered RIV wagons operate in the UK
Adrian Barr
Member
========================
New JNA box wagons for Mendip Rail
========================
In the past month there have been a couple of deliveries through the channel tunnel of new JNA-T bogie box wagons for VTG / Mendip Rail (which is a good excuse for a couple of clips of 92s in action on the 3rd rail).
On 24th July, 92044 moved 33 MRL-branded JNAs in the familiar blue VTG livery as 6M10 09:23 Dollands Moor - Wembley.
Wagon numbers on this train were 70.5831.351 to 70.5831.383
GBRF 92044 "Couperin" roaring through with brand new JNA's on drag to Wembley 6M10 24/7/26 | DJ Scania RigRider
66566 took the wagons forward to Bicester (for temporary storage) as 14:09 6Z31 from Wembley:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jwht/55416839188/ (Photo: John Turner)
***********************************************************
A week later on 31st July, 92032 hauled another 32 wagons as 6M10 09:23 Dollands Moor - Wembley:
GBRF Class 92 no. 92032 ‘IMechE Railway Division’ passes through Kensington Olympia | MegaTrainlover
These continued as 6Z31 14:09 to Bicester behind 66418
https://www.flickr.com/photos/d1059/55434151517/ (Photo: Stephen Dance)
Wagon numbers on this move were 70.5831.384 to 70.5831.416 (excluding 397)
These deliveries are from a batch of numbers in the 70.5831.351 to 482 series (suggesting there are 132 wagons on order in total). We can expect 2 more trains through the tunnel - although it's possible not all of the batch are necessarily for MRL.
The wagons are JNA-T in TOPS (like the familiar 70.5500 series of wagons), although the numbering continues from a series of JNA-X wagons such as 70.5831.350
TOPS physical characteristics for one of the new wagons:
817058313518 JNAT JN063D OL:046FT/13.970M IL:00.000M OW:2.742M IW:2.470M
DW:00.000M HT:1.251M
CP: DSGN 077.0T ACTL 077.8T CU:00.0 TARE: DSGN 24.600T ACTL 23.750T
46BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF16 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 25.500T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.550T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 26 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG
One gripe with using the 5831 series of numbers is that the wagons end up with identical check digits to the 5500 series of wagons, meaning the last 4 digits are the same for 7055003518 and 7058313518, which may lead to potential confusion.
Mendip Rail have already dispensed with most of their older box wagons in the past few years (such as the 34xx series of JNA-A wagons and a few KEAs that were in use), which makes me think these are likely to replace the VTG and NACO 39xx series of JNA-A wagons, with some additional wagons to allow for traffic growth. There are 90 of those JNA-As in service with Mendip Rail, dating from 2000/2001. 25 years old is not especially old for a box wagon (so they might end up on other flows), but the Mendip wagons do a lot of mileage and there are benefits to standardising the fleet of box wagons around the JNA-T type.
LTSV profile of the older JNA-A wagons in the 3900 - 3989 series: https://www.ltsv.com/rd/profile_detail.php?id=39
Since arrival, the new wagons have been stored at Bicester - presumably there is no immediate rush to put them into service. With limited space at the quarries, I imagine there will be some sort of co-ordinated swapping of wagons where the displaced wagons move for storage to be immediately replaced by the new ones.
New JNA box wagons for Mendip Rail
========================
In the past month there have been a couple of deliveries through the channel tunnel of new JNA-T bogie box wagons for VTG / Mendip Rail (which is a good excuse for a couple of clips of 92s in action on the 3rd rail).
On 24th July, 92044 moved 33 MRL-branded JNAs in the familiar blue VTG livery as 6M10 09:23 Dollands Moor - Wembley.
Wagon numbers on this train were 70.5831.351 to 70.5831.383
66566 took the wagons forward to Bicester (for temporary storage) as 14:09 6Z31 from Wembley:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jwht/55416839188/ (Photo: John Turner)
***********************************************************
A week later on 31st July, 92032 hauled another 32 wagons as 6M10 09:23 Dollands Moor - Wembley:
These continued as 6Z31 14:09 to Bicester behind 66418
https://www.flickr.com/photos/d1059/55434151517/ (Photo: Stephen Dance)
Wagon numbers on this move were 70.5831.384 to 70.5831.416 (excluding 397)
These deliveries are from a batch of numbers in the 70.5831.351 to 482 series (suggesting there are 132 wagons on order in total). We can expect 2 more trains through the tunnel - although it's possible not all of the batch are necessarily for MRL.
The wagons are JNA-T in TOPS (like the familiar 70.5500 series of wagons), although the numbering continues from a series of JNA-X wagons such as 70.5831.350
TOPS physical characteristics for one of the new wagons:
817058313518 JNAT JN063D OL:046FT/13.970M IL:00.000M OW:2.742M IW:2.470M
DW:00.000M HT:1.251M
CP: DSGN 077.0T ACTL 077.8T CU:00.0 TARE: DSGN 24.600T ACTL 23.750T
46BSU MS 75MPH RA1 VBF00 ABF16 BKEFCE CHG: 00.000T SPDCHG: 25.500T
GROSS DATA: GLW101.550T MS 60MPH RA0 VBF00 ABF47 BUILT: 26 CCS00
COUPLING DETAILS: TYPE: D STRENGTH:C ( 56.000T) AXLES: 4.0 NO. UNITS: 1
*BRAKE DISTRIBUTOR DATA NOT AVAILABLE* REG.DTLS: 80VTG
One gripe with using the 5831 series of numbers is that the wagons end up with identical check digits to the 5500 series of wagons, meaning the last 4 digits are the same for 7055003518 and 7058313518, which may lead to potential confusion.
Mendip Rail have already dispensed with most of their older box wagons in the past few years (such as the 34xx series of JNA-A wagons and a few KEAs that were in use), which makes me think these are likely to replace the VTG and NACO 39xx series of JNA-A wagons, with some additional wagons to allow for traffic growth. There are 90 of those JNA-As in service with Mendip Rail, dating from 2000/2001. 25 years old is not especially old for a box wagon (so they might end up on other flows), but the Mendip wagons do a lot of mileage and there are benefits to standardising the fleet of box wagons around the JNA-T type.
LTSV profile of the older JNA-A wagons in the 3900 - 3989 series: https://www.ltsv.com/rd/profile_detail.php?id=39
Since arrival, the new wagons have been stored at Bicester - presumably there is no immediate rush to put them into service. With limited space at the quarries, I imagine there will be some sort of co-ordinated swapping of wagons where the displaced wagons move for storage to be immediately replaced by the new ones.