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Copenhagen 'tourist tax' on non-EU card payments

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riceuten

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Interesting that they allow Swiss and UK residents to open an account. Why can't other pan-European banks do the same?

What country code does your IBAN start with?
MT

I have other accounts like Wise (that give you a Belgian, Turkish, and Hungarian IBAN) but the card has a UK registered number.

Revolut gives you a Polish IBAN if you have a zloty account with them, but again, the card has a UK registered number.

I had an account with Bankera - a Lithuanian bank - with an LT IBAN and a Lithuanian issued card, but they suddenly started charging €8.99 a month for the account, so I closed it - a surprisingly convoluted process.

I have previously had a German and an Italian bank account as well, both of whom closed my account due to Brexit, and both of whose cards were issued in their home countries.

My Bunq account has 3 (NL) IBANs (one current account, 2 savings accounts). Trading 212 gives you a Euro account with a DE IBAN, but the card is UK issued
 

mad_rich

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Now it’s only 6p, some might say. But you bet I’m going to dispute this transaction with my card provider, and I hope it knocks the merchant’s score down a bit. It will certainly cost the industry more than 6p.
"Unfortunately" (!) my card company has just decided to refund me as a gesture of goodwill, rather than pursue a chargeback.

It's a shame that the merchant won't be penalised for what is essentially fraud, but at least I have my 6p back!
 

riceuten

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Another possible account is the "non resident with passport" one offered by Banco Santander: https://www.bancosantander.es/en/particulares/cuentas-bancarias/cuenta-online-con-pasaporte/

If you don't have an address in Spain you can't get a physical card but the virtual one should be able to be added to phone wallets. No maintenance charge of transaction fees for payments.
Just applied for one - we'll see if they accept. Had to do the whole thing in Spanish as I tried unsuccessfully to change the language to English.
 
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johncrossley

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Just applied for one - we'll see if they accept. Had to do the whole thing in Spanish as I tried unsuccessfully to change the language to English.

You've already got Bunq and Me_Direct cards. What do you get from this Santander card that you don't get from those other cards?
 

185143

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I had this in a bar in Tourcoing, France.

The barman gave me the card reader and told me the price, which matched. I tapped a Monzo card and gave it back. It then offered the option to pay in Euro or GBP, and I clicked Euro and gave the machine back a second time. The barman looked rather confused as the machine, showed me the screen again and explained it had added on an extra charge due to being a non EU card. It was a very small amount, something like 18 cents. But that was the only time I've come across it. And it was very much a local's kind of bar, so I got the impression the barman wasn't overly familiar with the concept either!
 

mad_rich

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I had this in a bar in Tourcoing, France.
Thanks for the report.

Now that this ruse has been spotted in France and Germany, I guess it’s escaped containment! I assume some payment processor has cottoned-on to the opportunity, and is now promoting it to merchants.
 

riceuten

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speedy1

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Noticed this while reading Hertz Ireland T&Cs:

"Please note: A service charge of € 5.68 (including tax) for cars ... will be applicable on all payments made with non-EU issued credit/debit/charge cards."

That is quite hefty percentage-wise on a 60-100 EUR (eg one day) rental...
 

The exile

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Noticed this while reading Hertz Ireland T&Cs:

"Please note: A service charge of € 5.68 (including tax) for cars ... will be applicable on all payments made with non-EU issued credit/debit/charge cards."

That is quite hefty percentage-wise on a 60-100 EUR (eg one day) rental...
I cannot understand how this is legal on a SEPA (but non EU) issued debit card for a Euro account.
 

crablab

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I cannot understand how this is legal on a SEPA (but non EU) issued debit card for a Euro account.
I have explained this before. It is nothing to do with SEPA and a "SEPA issued debit card" is not a thing.

EU legislation on card schemes (the IFR - Interchange Fee Regulations - in this case) apply within the EEA and to cross-border transactions within the EEA. The UK is not within the EEA therefore the IFR no longer applies to cards issued in the UK when transacting in the EEA, irrespective of the currency processed.

The UK does have it's own version of the interchange cap now, but that applies only to transactions processed within the UK.

SEPA (a scheme for bank transfers of € denomination, which the UK remains a member of) is not relevant to the regulation of international card schemes.

The PSR (Payment Systems Regulator) neatly summarises this: https://www.psr.org.uk/our-work/card-payments/the-ifr/

And if you stil don't believe me, Mastercard have a section on their website explaining this alongside their published interchange rates: https://www.mastercard.com/europe/en/business/support/merchant-interchange-rates.html
 

didcotdean

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The UK Payment Systems Regulator does not believe that there is any additional genuinely incurred cost for a cross border payment UK-EEA now than before Brexit.

Hence they have been running a series of consultants on capping charges on EEA cards used in the UK to the same level as UK cards. Mastercard, Visa & Revolut have been the most vocal opponents including using the courts to question whether the PSR even had the right to do so (after the latest ruling they do, but that might not be the end).

All this legal objection will delay any cap equalization into 2027 and beyond. Meanwhile UK merchants are having to eat around £200M of the extra fees.each year. The PSR have suggested they could encourage more use of SEPA payments; easy to do that online, less so at a cash register.

From the other side, the UK is just another non EEA country and none to my knowledge are putting any time of effort into re-equalising cross border payments with the UK. Unlike the PSR they are progressively allowing surcharges.
 

johncrossley

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Noticed this while reading Hertz Ireland T&Cs:

"Please note: A service charge of € 5.68 (including tax) for cars ... will be applicable on all payments made with non-EU issued credit/debit/charge cards."

That is quite hefty percentage-wise on a 60-100 EUR (eg one day) rental...

Car hire is awkward as debit cards are sometimes not accepted, and the workarounds described by @riceuten are debit cards.
 

zero

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Car hire is awkward as debit cards are sometimes not accepted, and the workarounds described by @riceuten are debit cards.
Sometimes you can pay by debit card and then provide the credit card for guarantee purposes, but staff may be unfamiliar with how to process that.
 

Starmill

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I’m back in Denmark, and for the first time I’ve had a transaction where I wasn’t asked to confirm the increased amount

My coffee was 25kr, the terminal said 25kr, so I tapped and walked away.

Later, checking my transactions, I see I’ve been charged 25.49. (I guess the transaction was still in process after I walked away, and the barista accepted the increased amount on my behalf?).

Now it’s only 6p, some might say. But you bet I’m going to dispute this transaction with my card provider, and I hope it knocks the merchant’s score down a bit. It will certainly cost the industry more than 6p.
Do let us know how you get on.

I suspect the Danish customer service assistant wasn't trying to be deliberately short with you, and it's just some cultural divide. Of course, it's a possibility.

Edit: just spotted the card issuer closed your claim without raising a chargeback. Ah well.
This is the Brexit we voted for.
I think from my experience, you are safe in Denmark shopping at the likes of Lidl? Doesn't help much if what you want is some hot food sadly!
 
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Starmill

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The UK Payment Systems Regulator does not believe that there is any additional genuinely incurred cost for a cross border payment UK-EEA now than before Brexit.

Hence they have been running a series of consultants on capping charges on EEA cards used in the UK to the same level as UK cards. Mastercard, Visa & Revolut have been the most vocal opponents including using the courts to question whether the PSR even had the right to do so (after the latest ruling they do, but that might not be the end).

All this legal objection will delay any cap equalization into 2027 and beyond. Meanwhile UK merchants are having to eat around £200M of the extra fees.each year. The PSR have suggested they could encourage more use of SEPA payments; easy to do that online, less so at a cash register.

From the other side, the UK is just another non EEA country and none to my knowledge are putting any time of effort into re-equalising cross border payments with the UK. Unlike the PSR they are progressively allowing surcharges.
If the fees are equalised, it'll be interesting to see what happens with those co-branded Currensea and other debit cards which award more generous point rates on non-GBP or non-European (insert woolly definition here) transactions.
 

zero

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If the fees are equalised, it'll be interesting to see what happens with those co-branded Currensea and other debit cards which award more generous point rates on non-GBP or non-European (insert woolly definition here) transactions.
Curve on a paid plan gives 1% cashback on transactions outside the Mastercard Europe Zone, which is a bit wider than Europe itself https://help.curve.com/en_gb/1-interregional-cashback-HkKqqk_YA

It is a shame that just as Australia is about to get rid of automatically adding surcharges at card terminals (without any opportunity to decline), that they will start becoming more and more widespreaad in the EU/EEA.
 

riceuten

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Are vendors in the UK surcharging non-UK cards in a similar way to that described in this thread?
Not at the moment, though I can see some Brexiteers desperate for us to do the same. The same people who want a "British only" queue at immigration

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Car hire is awkward as debit cards are sometimes not accepted, and the workarounds described by @riceuten are debit cards.
There's a "logic" behind this, because the car hire firms often place a huge "shadow"/reserved charge (often running to 4 figures) over the balance, which wipes some people's available cash out
 

Starmill

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Curve on a paid plan gives 1% cashback on transactions outside the Mastercard Europe Zone, which is a bit wider than Europe itself https://help.curve.com/en_gb/1-interregional-cashback-HkKqqk_YA

It is a shame that just as Australia is about to get rid of automatically adding surcharges at card terminals (without any opportunity to decline), that they will start becoming more and more widespreaad in the EU/EEA.
It really is. Ultimately neither the vendor nor the consumer wants to be dealing with the unnecessary cost of secure cash collection into the 2030s, save a few particular cases where getting rid of it entirely would be an unreasonable hardship. Already in Belgium for example SNCB have a limited number of cash terminals and they usually have a secure hopper. Accordingly everyone really should be encouraged as far as possible to use ultra low cost means of payment, and this very low level of extra cost absorbed in all headline prices and paid by everyone.

As for Curve itself, I did wonder if its own brand and current plans would still exist after the Lloyds acquisition of the wallet tech. I don't know, perhaps they will do. I invested seed funding in Curve, I think it was under the Enterprise Investment Scheme, but I think I forgot to claim it back anyway. It was a small amount of money. Alas we were all wiped out in the sale.
 

blimmo

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And if you stil don't believe me, Mastercard have a section on their website explaining this alongside their published interchange rates: https://www.mastercard.com/europe/en/business/support/merchant-interchange-rates.html
On this page I can't seem to find any mention of higher interchange fees for EEA merchants accepting non-EEA cards. The "EEA inbound interregional cross-border interchange fees" pdf just lists the same 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit that is listed in the "Mastercard Intra-EEA Interchange Fees" list and all the domestic fees lists I checked. Is there anywhere the higher fees are actually listed?
 

didcotdean

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Are vendors in the UK surcharging non-UK cards in a similar way to that described in this thread?
Legally they may in the same way that they can surcharge the processing cost of UK commercial cards, or for that matter cash if they want to. It doesn't seem to have happened because it is messy to do as it has to be disclosed up front before payment.
 

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