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Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

jon0844

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The clear direction of travel is the demise of Argos. When these were shoehorned into Sainsbury's stores Sainsbury's were forced to cut their range in them. This seemed nonsensical, given how empty the Argos section always is.

Another not so great Sainsbury's idea in the past was buying and selling Homebase.

Argos SHOULD by rights be successful, as they had large warehouses you could pick up from AND they had the necessary stock stores out back that was perfect for the same day deliveries (which at £3.99 is pretty good value). But, Sainsbury's decided to house them in store with a tiny amount of stock, so a lot of the orders can't be picked up there and then - you need to come back later the same day, or perhaps in a day or two.

If the thinking was that people are going to their local supermarket so why not offer extra goods they can get at the same time, they didn't think it through.

The website has always been poor at making it implicitly clear your order might not be ready straight away, and even those who keep double checking can find in rare cases that the item sells and what you thought was ready to pick up now isn't. It happened to me and it was bloody annoying as I ordered because I wanted it there and then.

I also had two items purchased that had been opened and returned. One had scribbles on the product, the other had batteries in a remote and a cable missing. Staff always say they never resell returned goods, but it's something that has happened to me with things from Argos over the last 30 years and I'm not that big a customer!

And the other thing that can't have worked well for Sainbury's was the different pricing to what the supermarket also sold. At my local WGC store, you can see a Habitat item upstairs and see the shelf-edge price at, say, £9.99 and then look at Argos and it's £7.99. Sainsbury's won't price match Argos (they always distanced themselves from the business as if they had nothing to do with Argos at all), so you would obviously then attempt to buy from Argos and go collect it - but there's no guarantee the item will be in stock. And given how small the space is, why is Sainsbury's doubling up anyway?

Long story short, Argos could and should be turned into a successful business if managed properly by people who understand the way we shop today - but I fear that it's private equity about to do what it does best, and Argos will be run into the ground even worse than under the current/last owners.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Unless you leave very close to a standalone Argos with a decent sized backup space, Amazon will likely be at least as quick, more convenient, and cheaper

Currys seems to have done an excellent job of reinventing itself to play on the Amazon fatigue (prices that are increasingly becoming uncompetitive, delivery issues, issues with returns (they make it ever harder to speak to someone to organise returns or deal with issues) and promote the ability to go and pick up the product same day a lot of the time. When Amazon is even wanting Prime customers to pay for early delivery and same-day deliveries are rarer than they were, it's sound business sense.

Argos needs to do the same. Be more Currys, less Amazon - perhaps opening standalone stores, but having less open space for people to stand around in, and become more of a showroom. We all remember them having some items in the queuing area and the jewellery bit, but I'm sure there's a way to bring the best of both worlds with those who are starting to return to shopping in real stores rather than get tat from Amazon, Temu etc, but sometimes need to order things that most ordinary shops, including supermarkets, don't stock.

I am not sure exactly how it would work, but I can't stress enough that Argos should be successful. More and more people are getting fed up of Amazon and want a viable alternative.
 
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jon81uk

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Argos needs to do the same. Be more Currys, less Amazon - perhaps opening standalone stores, but having less open space for people to stand around in, and become more of a showroom. We all remember them having some items in the queuing area and the jewellery bit, but I'm sure there's a way to bring the best of both worlds with those who are starting to return to shopping in real stores rather than get tat from Amazon, Temu etc, but sometimes need to order things that most ordinary shops, including supermarkets, don't stock
The section in bold is one area the stores within Sainsbury's really went wrong with, my local one still has all the space that would have been the laminated catalogues, which are now touchscreens and it has at least four tills, but most people now are buying online and just collecting, especially with the limited stock holding in that store. Convert that floor space to more stockroom, have just one or two touch screen kiosks for those what need to browse and buy inside, then concentrate on doing click and collect well.

I've always found Argos website clear once you click into an item whether it is available now or after 4pm in that store, which for me means I can decide to go to one of two stores, but yes having the option to only show items available right now would be helpful.

It does feel like Sainsbury's just left Argos to die, rather than as we've suggested on here, keep it moving as a viable collection store and integrated properly into Sainsbury's stores that sell the same items as the Argos one. They seemed to combine the buying with the same own-label products for both, but not the pricing or stock-holding.
 

Djgr

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The section in bold is one area the stores within Sainsbury's really went wrong with, my local one still has all the space that would have been the laminated catalogues, which are now touchscreens and it has at least four tills, but most people now are buying online and just collecting, especially with the limited stock holding in that store. Convert that floor space to more stockroom, have just one or two touch screen kiosks for those what need to browse and buy inside, then concentrate on doing click and collect well.

I've always found Argos website clear once you click into an item whether it is available now or after 4pm in that store, which for me means I can decide to go to one of two stores, but yes having the option to only show items available right now would be helpful.

It does feel like Sainsbury's just left Argos to die, rather than as we've suggested on here, keep it moving as a viable collection store and integrated properly into Sainsbury's stores that sell the same items as the Argos one. They seemed to combine the buying with the same own-label products for both, but not the pricing or stock-holding.
It feels to me that retail directors can't help but buy and sell. It's in their Alpha DNA. Sainsbury's and Homebase seemed to have a similar trajectory.
 

jon0844

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I've always found Argos website clear once you click into an item whether it is available now or after 4pm in that store, which for me means I can decide to go to one of two stores, but yes having the option to only show items available right now would be helpful.

They got so close, in that you can filter searches to show items in stock - but they couldn't go the extra mile to do things like, say, show nearby stores that have stock. Many more companies are very good in that regard, given they want your money and you might be willing to drive further to pick up quicker (but haven't got time to change stores over and over).

Doing multiple searches in the backend to show this data will have an impact when there are potentially loads of searches being done concurrently, but it's an IT issue and can be solved if there was a will to do so.
 

bspahh

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They got so close, in that you can filter searches to show items in stock - but they couldn't go the extra mile to do things like, say, show nearby stores that have stock. Many more companies are very good in that regard, given they want your money and you might be willing to drive further to pick up quicker (but haven't got time to change stores over and over).

Doing multiple searches in the backend to show this data will have an impact when there are potentially loads of searches being done concurrently, but it's an IT issue and can be solved if there was a will to do so.
You can do that. Click Change store and then you can find other nearby stores, with availability any time, or click Today and it will only show stores with the item in stock.
Screenshot of argos.com showing the Change store popup
 

Harpo

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You can do that. Click Change store and then you can find other nearby stores, with availability any time, or click Today and it will only show stores with the item in stock.
View attachment 208930
Probably also the most annoying feature Of Argos click & connect, items only available xx miles away but not available to order anywhere near me.
 

SuspectUsual

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Probably also the most annoying feature Of Argos click & connect, items only available xx miles away but not available to order anywhere near me.

Which is them saying we have no stock in your local store or the warehouse, we’re not likely to get any more, but these shops do have some stock remaining.

What would you prefer? A message saying out of stock in my shop and not available to order?
 

jfollows

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I like Argos and I normally don't expect them to have things in stock, they're the only "click and collect" retailer I use because they're located very close to my home.

I remember Green Shield Stamps became Argos in Wilmslow, and they were very early in enabling a stock check over the Internet, and reservation, so I could check and reserve something before walking over to pay and collect.

They closed their main store a number of years ago with a sign "nearest store location is Wythenshawe" which just made me laugh because anyone who shops in Wilmslow doesn't shop in Wythenshawe, in fact probably doesn't even now how to get there. A generalisation I know, but certainly I only once went to the shopping centre because the Halle Choir was rehearsing in the Forum.

I use them once every month or two, no issues, I can pay for delivery but what's the point, even I can walk 200 yards to collect.

So I hope they continue inside Sainsbury's, let's see!

Clearly the value to Sainsbury’s of Argos was negative, but I suggest it’s impossible to quantify. I know that Boots used to have an in-store concession pharmacy at Waitrose which I found useful and would shop at Waitrose as well as picking up my prescriptions. For me, once Boots closed their in-store pharmacy, I’ve never been back to Waitrose and I don’t use Boots either, I use “Pharmacy2U” for my prescriptions now. Waitrose will never know how much business it lost as a result of this closure, and Sainsbury’s will have the same problem if they get rid of in-store Argos (although they’re not proposing to do this at the moment).
 
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SuspectUsual

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Waitrose will never know how much business it lost as a result of this closure, and Sainsbury’s will have the same problem if they get rid of in-store Argos (although they’re not proposing to do this at the moment)

Sainsbury's will get some data because most of their customers have Nectar cards and Argos also accept Nectar. So they will be able to identify Nectar cardholders who used their card in both Sainsbury's and Argos in store X, and then when the Argos closed stopped using the Sainsbury's. Not perfect data because Nectar adoption isn't 100% and Nectar usage isn't 100% where adopted, but they'll already know how many customers are at risk.
 

The exile

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How about “if you buy it we will move it to your local store”? (Differently worded) Management failure to stock stores properly - management sort it out!
 

Harpo

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How about “if you buy it we will move it to your local store”? (Differently worded) Management failure to stock stores properly - management sort it out!
Exactly! Screwfix and Toolstation are way better. It’s either, available now, available tomorrow or out of stock. The Argos system has always felt underdeveloped and far from customer friendly.
 

sor

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How about “if you buy it we will move it to your local store”? (Differently worded) Management failure to stock stores properly - management sort it out!

Exactly! Screwfix and Toolstation are way better. It’s either, available now, available tomorrow or out of stock. The Argos system has always felt underdeveloped and far from customer friendly.

I think Argos do this, at least around here. If the item is listed as "available from 5pm" and is in stock at a nearby branch, I assume they get it brought over from that branch. Otherwise it's listed as in stock, or available tomorrow (I presume it comes from a warehouse) or out of stock (nothing in warehouse).

I'm not sure if I am an outlier but I've never found the Argos stock reporting particularly bad - and I say this as someone who has been chasing up on an item that is out of stock in most Argos branches (not because its rare as other retail chains have plenty of stock, but I want the 7% discount)
 

Andyh82

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Argos SHOULD by rights be successful, as they had large warehouses you could pick up from AND they had the necessary stock stores out back that was perfect for the same day deliveries (which at £3.99 is pretty good value). But, Sainsbury's decided to house them in store with a tiny amount of stock, so a lot of the orders can't be picked up there and then - you need to come back later the same day, or perhaps in a day or two.

If the thinking was that people are going to their local supermarket so why not offer extra goods they can get at the same time, they didn't think it through.

The website has always been poor at making it implicitly clear your order might not be ready straight away, and even those who keep double checking can find in rare cases that the item sells and what you thought was ready to pick up now isn't. It happened to me and it was bloody annoying as I ordered because I wanted it there and then.

I also had two items purchased that had been opened and returned. One had scribbles on the product, the other had batteries in a remote and a cable missing. Staff always say they never resell returned goods, but it's something that has happened to me with things from Argos over the last 30 years and I'm not that big a customer!

And the other thing that can't have worked well for Sainbury's was the different pricing to what the supermarket also sold. At my local WGC store, you can see a Habitat item upstairs and see the shelf-edge price at, say, £9.99 and then look at Argos and it's £7.99. Sainsbury's won't price match Argos (they always distanced themselves from the business as if they had nothing to do with Argos at all), so you would obviously then attempt to buy from Argos and go collect it - but there's no guarantee the item will be in stock. And given how small the space is, why is Sainsbury's doubling up anyway?

Long story short, Argos could and should be turned into a successful business if managed properly by people who understand the way we shop today - but I fear that it's private equity about to do what it does best, and Argos will be run into the ground even worse than under the current/last owners.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



Currys seems to have done an excellent job of reinventing itself to play on the Amazon fatigue (prices that are increasingly becoming uncompetitive, delivery issues, issues with returns (they make it ever harder to speak to someone to organise returns or deal with issues) and promote the ability to go and pick up the product same day a lot of the time. When Amazon is even wanting Prime customers to pay for early delivery and same-day deliveries are rarer than they were, it's sound business sense.

Argos needs to do the same. Be more Currys, less Amazon - perhaps opening standalone stores, but having less open space for people to stand around in, and become more of a showroom. We all remember them having some items in the queuing area and the jewellery bit, but I'm sure there's a way to bring the best of both worlds with those who are starting to return to shopping in real stores rather than get tat from Amazon, Temu etc, but sometimes need to order things that most ordinary shops, including supermarkets, don't stock.

I am not sure exactly how it would work, but I can't stress enough that Argos should be successful. More and more people are getting fed up of Amazon and want a viable alternative.
There probably does need to be a seperate thread about how Amazon is going downhill. Third party sellers selling dodgy goods, bad delivery experience (probably worse than Evri if you have a decent local courier), and not to mention how all the delivery vans always look like they’ve been banger racing.
 

Peter Sarf

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There probably does need to be a seperate thread about how Amazon is going downhill. Third party sellers selling dodgy goods, bad delivery experience (probably worse than Evri if you have a decent local courier), and not to mention how all the delivery vans always look like they’ve been banger racing.
Not strictly on topic but my neighbour gets a lot of deliveries, maybe two or three a week that I notice. When VanR turn up the driver leaves the engine running while going to the front door. I am soo tempted to jump in and drive off - Ok VanR remind your drivers its illegal to leave your vehicle unattended with the engine running.
 

brad465

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There probably does need to be a seperate thread about how Amazon is going downhill. Third party sellers selling dodgy goods, bad delivery experience (probably worse than Evri if you have a decent local courier), and not to mention how all the delivery vans always look like they’ve been banger racing.
Not strictly on topic but my neighbour gets a lot of deliveries, maybe two or three a week that I notice. When VanR turn up the driver leaves the engine running while going to the front door. I am soo tempted to jump in and drive off - Ok VanR remind your drivers its illegal to leave your vehicle unattended with the engine running.
What we have to remember is this behaviour maybe influenced by the culture of the company. If there is, as is often discussed generally, very strict exploitative demands from Amazon workers that mean they have to deliver x amount of parcels in y time, with little leeway, then drivers are going to all sorts of desperate things for fear of repercussions.
 

Peter Sarf

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What we have to remember is this behaviour maybe influenced by the culture of the company. If there is, as is often discussed generally, very strict exploitative demands from Amazon workers that mean they have to deliver x amount of parcels in y time, with little leeway, then drivers are going to all sorts of desperate things for fear of repercussions.
Yes the pressure on delivery drivers seems very real. It is a shame because it will put more reputable firms under financial pressure.

I must admit I avoid Amazon as it seems you cannot be sure of what you are getting. So its easier to take the risk for less on eBay or go into an actual shop/Argos and get to see it touch it feel it. Easier to take back when it fails it fails as well.
 

Towers

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Yes the pressure on delivery drivers seems very real. It is a shame because it will put more reputable firms under financial pressure.

I must admit I avoid Amazon as it seems you cannot be sure of what you are getting. So its easier to take the risk for less on eBay or go into an actual shop/Argos and get to see it touch it feel it. Easier to take back when it fails it fails as well.
I recall reading somewhere that Amazon’s ‘system’ will not allow a driver to show that they have delivered an item unless the van is parked within a set distance of the property, even if they are delivering to multiple adjacent addresses, which sometimes means that drivers have to jump back in the van to move it a few feet before stopping again. Presumably this is intended to prevent delivery vehicles being left unattended out of sight for excessive periods, but it illustrates just how challenging the job can be for the drivers.

The condition of Amazon’s delivery fleet is pretty eye opening, and in any other circumstance I would imagine a firm might look to address the issue given the damage to their image; presumably Amazon’s inherent success means they aren’t bothered.
 
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philthetube

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Not strictly on topic but my neighbour gets a lot of deliveries, maybe two or three a week that I notice. When VanR turn up the driver leaves the engine running while going to the front door. I am soo tempted to jump in and drive off - Ok VanR remind your drivers its illegal to leave your vehicle unattended with the engine running.
No need to drive off, just remove the key and put it under the seat, assuming the van is not keyless
 

Harpo

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I recall reading somewhere that Amazon’s ‘system’ will not allow a driver to show that they have delivered an item unless the van is parked within a set distance of the property
If only Amazon’s systems ensured delivery to the correct address!
 

Bald Rick

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The condition of Amazon’s delivery fleet is pretty eye opening, and in any other circumstance I would imagine a firm might look to address the issue given the damage to their image; presumably Amazon’s inherent success means they aren’t bothered.

If only Amazon’s systems ensured delivery to the correct address!

Perhaps I’m an exception, but our Amazon deliveries are always to the right place, and the vans in good nick. Many of them electric.
 

Russel

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Perhaps I’m an exception, but our Amazon deliveries are always to the right place, and the vans in good nick. Many of them electric.

Yeah I can't fault any of my recent Amazon deliveries, though the vans can be somewhat battle scarred.
 

styles

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Perhaps I’m an exception, but our Amazon deliveries are always to the right place, and the vans in good nick. Many of them electric.
Ditto here. Always quite prompt, left somewhere suitable if I'm not in, and bagged up or stored in the meter cupboard if it's raining.
 

D6130

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I went into the TGJones shop/post office in St Andrews on Thursday morning in search of a suitable birthday card for a friend and the latest edition of Private Eye caught my attention. I picked it up for a quick browse and - almost immediately - I was pounced upon by a friendly middle-aged woman, not in uniform, who thrust a voucher into my hand, valid only for that day, giving 10% off all books, magazines, toys, drinks and confectionery....plus 25% off all stationery and cards. Did that smack of desperation or what?
 

eyebrook1961

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I've not seen a list of the stores shutting; possibly as its still in flu

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

oops - forgot to actually wrote anything(!)
Just come back from a overnight trip with my good lady to Middlesbrough. Saturday morning went to Redcar first and their TG Jones has huge dayglo yellow posters in their windows saying "everything must go, branch closing down" - and this is one with an active post office.
 

Darandio

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Just come back from a overnight trip with my good lady to Middlesbrough. Saturday morning went to Redcar first and their TG Jones has huge dayglo yellow posters in their windows saying "everything must go, branch closing down" - and this is one with an active post office.

Depends what you mean by active. Since it was announced the Post Office was closing staff sickness has gone through the roof! In fact given you were there on Saturday you might have seen some posters hanging off the doors saying it was closing early.
 

eyebrook1961

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Depends what you mean by active. Since it was announced the Post Office was closing staff sickness has gone through the roof! In fact given you were there on Saturday you might have seen some posters hanging off the doors saying it was closing early.
Ah, Ok, I suppose I quite understand that. I see the one in Stockton relocated from WH Smiths when it closed to a newly opened shop (reopened unit) on the high street
 

brad465

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"TG Jones" as a rebrand made no sense at all. For all WHSmith's flaws, the name was far more recognisable and if they were going to keep it for the "over a barrel" locations, then they might as well have kept it for all of them. The name rebrand only made sense if it came with a massive interior overhaul of the stores, which clearly hasn't happened. If the High Street ones are not viable, they are better off closed.
 

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