DarloRich
Veteran Member
thanks! I assume it will be used as some form of observation vehicle with Belmond ( or does it retain driving controls?)
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Brighton Belle On Test 28/01/25
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WesternLancer
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I looked at pics of the original Belle (1960s pic) and the curvature of the driving car roof line (where horns would have been mounted) - looks different to me
Using this nice 1964 pic on wikipedia page
Brighton Belle - Wikipedia
But I agree it would seem odd to change the roof profile so I'd welcome others views that compare this front as original with the recent images of Celia's front.
Celia's drivers / 2nd mans windows look slightly smaller than the originals to me - but is that plausible? Seems unlikely.....
Sun Chariot
Established Member
You're right:
The front end windscreens are now safely glazed, the pane is shallower - but similar width, save for thicker modern frame.
The former cab doors - now sealed up and no wood-framed droplight - have a fixed pane wider and shallower than in the "as built" cab's door.
I blew up the two front-ends and I used their pinstripine - front end on both is the same relative to the depth of the cream side - to check that the front prinstripe heights match. They do!
WesternLancer
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Thanks. Helpful! Also the guards / luggage compartment door windows have been replaced in oval, obviously - which seems unnecessary but one can imagine why they might have liked the style
What's your take on the roofline above former driving position?
Sun Chariot
Established Member
The former luggage area is now part of the open saloon and, I'd wager, emergency exit rather than for general ingress/egress use. The sealed oval windows are as much the 21st century necessity, as keeping a "feel" consistent with its passenger saloon; ditto the route stencil being a sealed oval pane
The roof-line I think is unchanged. I had to use the concave shape in those two rivetted beading strips - the ones either side above forner stencil (and now sealed oval pane). The curvature matches from as much as I can dig out those two images with enhancing.
That angle of the "now" image first led me to believe the front end profile is similar to Swindon class 120 / 126 DMUs; but it was the roof beading which I used as reference.
I'll stick to post boxes: it seems easier.
WesternLancer
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Thanks for doing that analysis - helpful and interesting to read!The former luggage area is now part of the open saloon and, I'd wager, emergency exit rather than for general ingress/egress use. The sealed oval windows are as much the 21st century necessity, as keeping a "feel" consistent with its passenger saloon; ditto the route stencil being a sealed oval pane
The roof-line I think is unchanged. I had to use the concave shape in those two rivetted beading strips - the ones either side above forner stencil (and now sealed oval pane). The curvature matches from as much as I can dig out those two images with enhancing.
That angle of the "now" image first led me to believe the front end profile is similar to Swindon class 120 / 126 DMUs; but it was the roof beading which I used as reference.
I'll stick to post boxes: it seems easier.
BRX
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"Celia" was out in service today, on a trip to Gillingham and back. Here seen on its return leg through south London.The ex-BEL driving car that went to Eastleigh will soon - supposedly mid May - reappear as private hire vehicle 'Celia' in the British Pullman rake, seating up to 12 guests.
Celia｜The British Pullman Carriage by Baz Luhrmann and Catherine Martin
Designed by Baz Luhrmann and Catherine Martin, the new British Pullman’s Celia private dining carriage is the exclusive venue on the rails for life’s celebrations.www.belmond.com
BRX
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Another view of "Celia", this time with bonus steam engine
eastwestdivide
Established Member
And again, still from video at Faversham just now:
WesternLancer
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Looks pretty good in that context
Indeed, it may be relegated to an observation / dining saloon, but in my opinion looks far better (and tidier) than the 5 Belle does. I understand the reasons why they decided to install new lights, but it’s lost the original look to it whereas Celia has been sympathetically done. Even the oval replacing the blind box indicator is still very in keeping with the Pullman art deco theme.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
There were two other ex-5-BEL coaches in that rake, and both have B5-type bogies like Celia while the other Pullmans were on what looked like original Pullman bogies. Were the original 5-BEL bogies particularly worse than hauled Pullmans?
WesternLancer
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There’s a certain charm to the jumper cables and the horns on the roof!
Tho I think non enthusiasts will like this look.
In the video it looks like the blinds were down so possibly not actually in use?
Ashley Hill
Established Member
I agree. I saw it pass through Overton on Saturday on its way to Bath, it looks plain without its front end accoutrements.
Chris125
Established Member
I think it was available for hire from mid may? Presumably they're still finishing off the interior and training staff, and I guess they don't want the interior to be spoiled before an official unveiling.
WesternLancer
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Good points.
Tony2
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Celia was out again today on 1Z55 1000 Victoria to Oxford. There were a total of 4 of the Brighton Belle coaches in the consist. Celia carries the TOPS number 99593 on the sole bar under the nearest door.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
Windows open, blinds up? Did you peek inside?
Tony2
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I started to take photos of the interior then someone inside pulled the blinds down! Bit of a comedy situation, as I waved and smiled back in return!
I could see some of the patterns inside and a plush looking couch, it was so sunny the photos mainly show reflections of the outside.
eastwestdivide
Established Member
They need the railway equivalent of mirrored sunglasses!
Chris125
Established Member
Belmond have revealed Celia's new interior. Hopefully those double doors don't prove to be damp and draughty?
www.facebook.com
British Pullman, A Belmond Train
Welcome to Celia, the British Pullman’s immersive private dining experience for life’s ultimate celebrations. The exclusive carriage follows the narrative of the fictional muse Celia. Stepping...
www.facebook.com
Chris125
Established Member
Some social media posts today suggest they've been fixing a fault with the camshaft, which may help explain the delay.
Rail_Sussex
Member
Great to see an update!
I’ve seen online there’s a path from Crewe HS to Derby Litchurch Lane on the 11th August? Potential move? And there’s also a return move 2 days later
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Sorry if I’ve missed this, but will it be staffed by LSL onboard catering crew or Belmont staff?
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Wyrleybart
Established Member
Think I have seen a suggestion somewhere that it is going to be tested on the Litchurch Lane 3rd rail test track
Chris125
Established Member
I don't see why it wouldn't operate like other LSL dining trains.
Social Media posts were largely by the SETG FYI who were asked by LSL if there were any remaining Camshaft equipment left over at Wimbledon, and SETG with their knowledge and experience through ownership of 3417 obliged.
I wonder if they were hoping 1881s (and the VOPs) equipment would still be in good working order after all these years away from the juice.
As for staffing, it has no connection to Bellmond so won’t be going near them.
Rail_Sussex
Member
Watch this space!
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Thanks, you are probably right! It sometimes railtour operator work with different party’s to complete stuff.
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When the unit is all ready and signed off, is there a provisional depot they’d like to have it stabled in down south?
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