Peter Sarf
Established Member
Brings back memories of Marchwood, Long Marston and Eastleigh getting emptied out.
We have come a long way, only ten out of ninety left to get to where they belong !.
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
- Thread starter WWTownEnth
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We have come a long way, only ten out of ninety left to get to where they belong !.
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Dstock7080
Established Member
why is 029 red? or did you mean rogue?
mansonlo49
Member
504 at Derby Litchurch Lane？The first post says that is at SWR land
Bobcp
Member
I agree that currently 9 Class 701/5's are present at Derby but my records do not show 701504 as being present but do show 701510 as being the last to arrive on 27/07/26.
Incidentally my first Class 701/5 sighting was over 6 years ago, on 02/07/20, when I viewed 701502 at Melton Mowbray station en route to Old Dalby.
It did not carry any external numbers simply paper labels in the windows.
701502 has had numerous return trips between Derby Litchurch Lane and Old Dalby over the years and has only recently been externally numbered.
It has also recently, along with 701501, been seen on the Litchurch Lane test track fitted with a pantograph and running on the overhead power supply.
My only other Class 701 sighting earlier than that was on 30/06/20 when 701004 was present on the Derby Litchurch Lane test track.
701508 and 701524 both spent time at Worksop and Eastleigh before returning to Derby Litchurch Lane.
It could be as simple as that during the first part of the works they were drilling the piles nearest the Down Fast line (Pt 2) and the gap between the fence and the platform edge was too narrow to allow Pt 2 to be used, so the Down services were using the Down Slow line (Pt 1) instead.
Now they have finished those piles, the second part of the works they are drilling the piles nearest the Up Fast line (Pt 3) and the gap between the fence and the platform edge is too narrow to allow Pt 3 to be used. Trains only stop at Pt 3 on Sundays, on Monday to Saturdays all the stopping services use the Up Slow line (Pt 4) instead.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
+
Apologies it is 701510 not 701504. How on earth I mis-read two things I do not know.
Corrected.
I find it so hard to believe that 701501 must have been built SIX years ago !.
It is a sobering thought. They must be in quite a state due to lack of use.
I know effort has gone into keeping them warmed up to a greater or lesser extent but six years must be around half the life of the average car !
And here it is, the last delivery from Bicester is on Friday 7Q87 (so with barriers presumably). Usual times.
EDIT
Also just found this from Wimbledon to Derby Litchurch Lane.
It is probably the barrier coaches and loco returning to Derby BUT there is nothing I can see from the info that would exclude a 701 in the formation apart from it being barriers but still being class 5 (5Q87) rather than class 7 (7Q87). I suppose because the two barrier coaches mean its fully braked as long as no dumb 701 in between - someone with more knowledge than me might be able to clarify.
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I suspect this 5M57 will indeed just be the barriers, but it is interesting that it is pathed to Litchurch Lane and not the RCD where they are usually kept. Might be an error, or perhaps they are getting ready to move something else ?
WWTownEnth
Member
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Maybe it’s 029 going back to get that noise fixed.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
That is a point of course. There will inevitably be (up to ten) more moves from Derby LL (presumably to Wimbledon rather than via a storage location). But I wonder how soon as space must be getting extremely tight at Wimbledon or indeed all of SWR ?.
The problem is that there are lots of out of service units taking up space for upto 24hours a day most days, getting the all the already delivered 701s in service will it self free up some space.
More 701s in reliable service will also help with releasing the last 458s and cascading 450s to longer distance services where there are more realistic stabling options further from London releasing more space.
No magic bullets just lots of small gradual steps.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I agree. It does bother me that the 458s that are presumably stood down have already filied up Bournemouth so where to put the remaining 458/4s ?. But 450s not needing so many London centric sidings must be something to look forward to.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Could be for the wheel lathe. That requires ten car units to be split in half to fit.
They 701/0s are two x five car units with no inner cabs.
I cannot remember the other work that needs a ten car unit split - guess bogie drop.
This is almost certainly to resolve the banging I heard coming from the unit yesterday !!
Looking from the depot entrance road, the wheel lathe is the building standing on it's own to the left, while the wheel drop is the building attached to the main shed to the right. I wonder which building the half unit was being pulled (or pushed) through ?
But aren’t these units meant to be working in multiple?
Siemens Staines
Established Member
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- 1,478
It looks like 701 availability may have taken a dip this morning with 46 of the Friday mornings 52 diagrams covered by 701s. The outstanding six diagrams are covered by
three pairs of 458/4 (I have posted the details to the 458 thread), one pair of 450s (2J07 etc), one single 450 (2D90/2J09/2J16) and one cancelled (2H85/2H92/2H91).
three pairs of 458/4 (I have posted the details to the 458 thread), one pair of 450s (2J07 etc), one single 450 (2D90/2J09/2J16) and one cancelled (2H85/2H92/2H91).
Yes that’s why they are so many years late in to service, they don’t work very well when coupled together.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Working in multiple applies to these 701/5s BUT not when being pulled by a locomotive.
When being pulled things are very different - they are not working in multiple. They are not being driven from their own cab(s).
These units have sat around for six years so any manufacturing faults will be added to by all the problems of long term lack of use.
By dragging five coaches instead of ten you halve the number of problems you need to solve before the drag will be successful. We have seen quite a few late departures from Bicester in the past, sometimes days late !. So it is an important risk to reduce.
Most drags/deliveries have been done with the locomotive able to control the brakes on the unit in a very simple way - more or less like dumb wagons. Now this seems to have been difficult to achieve often. Furthermore some units cannot be braked so some deliveries (like todays) have been with barrier wagons and a locomotive at each end (because they do not want the hassle of moving the locomotive to the opposite end when they need to revers).
A second reason :-
Now i am not sure exactly in this case (701/5s) BUT, because the unit might be unbraked, they do not want to double the weight of unbraked train for two locomotives and barrier wagons to control. Often the barrier wagons and the locomotive are the only part with working brakes. It is one of the jobs barrier/brakeforce wagons generally have to do. I am not 100% sure this applies to todays move.
To be fair no body has tried using the 701/5s much yet, let alone coupled together. That is not the issue causing late entry into service or problems with deliveries.
The 701/0s were planned to be got into service first (before 701/5s).
Not that the 701/0s had an easy entry into service BUT nothing to do with running coupled as they never do being 10car already.
You can argue that a 701/0 is in fact two 701/5s coupled together with the inner cabs missing. So multiple working happens all the time and does work. But regular coupling and uncoupling does not occur.
But running two 701/5s coupled together is a lot easier once delivered and sorted by the depot (Wimbledon) than trying to pull them from storage where they have sat unused for six years.
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It will be interesting to see how 701/5s are operated once they are in service - will pairs be semi-permanently coupled or will there be splits/joining on some services during the day or only at depots. As there are no corridor connections between units - how will the guards work them? Also with only one toilet in each set will this be a factor in cancelations and availability? I would not be surprised if some units get marked as not suitable for multiple operation because of short (or long term) faults. Single unit operation on one or more daily diagrams could easily become the norm as SWR does this at times - an example being the single 450 out on a metro diagram today.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Once there are enough units on SWR short forms should reduce to (almost) none.
I think most splitting/joining will be at start and end of day. The 5car 701s were only ordered to cope with lack of 10car siding space and places where reversals cannot fit in sub 10car platforms. Kingston was an example when there is an engineering blockade (New Malden side or was it the other ?).
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
It will be disappointing to see sole 701/5s out during the day on weekdays but we all know it’ll end up happening more often than it should.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
It is the age old glass half empty vs glass half full. It is better to run a short form than to cancel altogether.
I would have had a uniform 10car fleet. Saved the money on those 60 intermediate cabs and bought a few more 10 car 701/0s.
Oh but where to stable them !.
(where did I put my bulldozer).
I suspect for the time being there will soon be a surplus of 701s so no excuse for short forms......
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Delivery on its way and left on time. Note original 7Q87 cancelled and a new path in
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norbitonflyer
Established Member
The bay paltform (no 1) faces Twickenham, so is used if the line towards New Malden is closed or a shuttle is being run from Shepperton. Although recent resignalling allows a 10-car to reverse in Platform 2.
Trains terminating from the other dierction reverse at Hampton Wick, using the same crossover that trains use to access the Bay
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
As I typed the post I KNEW someone would be along to say that. It’s one of the most over repeated phrases on the forum (nothing against you
) and it’s an infuriating one purely because it’s not always true, and I also don’t believe it’s always the case that it‘s run short or cancel. Especially not with the apparent surplus of stock they have…However, perhaps I’ll wait to pass judgement. They may be good and run them always in pairs, we’ll see.
gabrielhj07
Established Member
How often were 455s run alone? Pretty sparingly I recall. Ideally the 701/5s are treated as semi-permanently coupled.
Going back 5 years, a 455+456 combo (6 carriages) were regularly seen on the Chessington branch
Snow1964
Established Member
That wasn't the original plan, the original contractual in service dates had a couple of units after few months, then deliveries of both 5car and 10car grew in parallel.
Having all 701/0s first was a much later idea, and from memory (so apologies if wrong) a few 5cars were built before the change of plan.
In their early years, many off peak, evening and weekend workings were single units. In later years single 4car units were rare
43096
On Moderation
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I would go the other way and go all 5-car. One of the stupidities of fixed length suburban units is if you have one whack a tree (for example) you lose the whole set and risk cancellations. If you lose one 5-car for the same reason you might short form one diagram.
The Southern went for 5-car max units for a reason…