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Possible new station at Thorpe Park (Leeds): consultation open

YorksLad12

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(Mods: I'm not seeing a specific Thorpe Park thread, but please move if appropriate.)

West Yorkshire Combined Authority is engaging on plans for Thorpe Park, leading up to the Full Business Case.

Excerpts from the page linked to below:
We are developing plans to build a new rail station on the existing Leeds to York section of the Trans-Pennine railway line - between Cross Gates and Garforth Stations. The station would sit within the wider development at Thorpe Park which is a mixed-use office, commercial and residential area. The site would also be near to the southern end of the East Leeds Orbital Route (ELOR).

The current design proposal for the station includes:
  • Two platforms (plus one interim platform)
  • Footbridge
  • Ticket machines and covered seating area
  • Lift access on both platforms to the footbridge
  • Step free access and egress onto both platforms
  • Cycle lane and cycle storage
  • Drop off and pick up point
  • Rail services with a minimum of two trains per hour
  • 300 space car park with blue badge parking spaces and electric vehicle charging points
  • Provision for bus service including turning circle

There's a line in the FAQ that says "The current programme envisages that the station will be in operation in 2027" which is plainly nonsense. The Facebook post I saw shared from a local councillor said 2028. I'm going for 2029, because I'm an optimist ;)

 
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Grumpy

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Planning started in 2018.
These local government guys really know how to move a project forward with pace.
 

YorksLad12

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To be fair, there was a pandemic in the middle of that. I did public consultation on Leeds Station Southern Entrance in 2009; thanks to the project being called in for review after the financial crisis, it didn't open until 2016.
 

thejuggler

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Planning started in 2018.
These local government guys really know how to move a project forward with pace.
'Planning' in this case means someone having an idea and an initial discussion. 2020-2022 were years when little would have happened, so in reality it is maybe 4 years actual prep to date.

Considering WYCA have little control over the railway any project like this will always be 10-15 years.
 

xdbjacx

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I'm still a bit mystified by this, especially the claims of passive provision for four tracking. I couldn't see this on the earlier renderings but perhaps they were not based on any kind of finalised plans.

Ironically, the opening of this station is the thing that could well make the need for four tracking unavoidable. It is bonkers that local/regional transport funding cannot practically include any capacity expansion. In this case it risks triggering a very expensive network enhancement, with disruption and retrofit to a route that is currently being modernised.

It's not that I am against it. I just think that it should be combined with the closure of the largely inexplicable East Garforth, much as Cottingley is to be sacrificed for White Rose.

They could call it West Garforth to temper any local opposition...
 

Allwinter_Kit

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Having just caught the train through the Garforths i'm so glad that these stations exist to link the vast distance between them.

I've wondered on my regular commute what the logic was behind them. I assume / glean that big housing growth on the east was (sensibly) linked to improving public transport accessibility but that they did this through building a second station a half mile from the first rather than either making the original more accessible from the development or re-siting it a bit between the two seems mad.

Closing it would knock a few minutes off the Northern trundler to York, which could then be taken up by Thorpe Park - which would at least serve a different audience!
 

YorksLad12

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Having just caught the train through the Garforths i'm so glad that these stations exist to link the vast distance between them.

I've wondered on my regular commute what the logic was behind them. I assume / glean that big housing growth on the east was (sensibly) linked to improving public transport accessibility but that they did this through building a second station a half mile from the first rather than either making the original more accessible from the development or re-siting it a bit between the two seems mad.

Closing it would knock a few minutes off the Northern trundler to York, which could then be taken up by Thorpe Park - which would at least serve a different audience!
Labour voters. There was a lot of that in the 1980s; Cottingley opened before Steeton & Silsden, even though S&S was ready first, for political reasons.

Given the amount of P&R spaces planned I'm wondering if there will be a skip-stop service introduced. The Blackpool North service currently stops at Garforth and Church Fenton; the York shuttle at Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth, Micklefield. The current Hull-Halifax service stops at all stations.

I did note that there was an "interim" platform mentioned. Not sure how that works, if it's an additional one or just opening one platform at a temporary location. If it was actually a west-facing bay, it could finally act as the East Leeds Parkway we were promised when I were a lad. Thorpe Park-Leeds-somewhere else would release a platform at Leeds and provide a fast service for P&R drivers. I've no idea, and I'm not speculating! But I might ask them as part of the consultation. Their image shows two 'regular' platforms with no electrification masts or wires, so I don't know what they know.
 

Grumpy

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Having just caught the train through the Garforths i'm so glad that these stations exist to link the vast distance between them.

I've wondered on my regular commute what the logic was behind them. I assume / glean that big housing growth on the east was (sensibly) linked to improving public transport accessibility
Indeed. And it was quick and cheap to do. The ramp/bridge was already there. The construction was two basic wooden platforms. The calculations showed that the net additional revenue generated was much more than the costs and would contribute to reducing the subsidy of the local services. Win Win.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Labour voters. There was a lot of that in the 1980s; Cottingley opened before Steeton & Silsden, even though S&S was ready first, for political reasons.
Cottingley was cheap to do e.g. the footbridge was already there. The service on the line was already paid for by the PTE,
Steeton was trickier. The PTE only supported the Leeds/Bradford service as far as Keighley which was the last station in the PTE area. Opening Steeton not only came with the costs of providing the station but also the additional service costs between Keighley and Steeton eg track, signalling, increased share of the train running costs etc.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

'Planning' in this case means someone having an idea and an initial discussion. 2020-2022 were years when little would have happened, so in reality it is maybe 4 years actual prep to date.

Considering WYCA have little control over the railway any project like this will always be 10-15 years.
Construction of the Office Park began approx 2000. The Springs retail/leisure park was announced in 2015 and opened in 2018. The former Barnbow lands have been converted to housing which is now continuous from Cross Gates to Thorpe Park. Ten years after the opening we might have a railway station. Need to sharpen up. This and the White Rose shambles dont give a good impression.
 
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Bayum

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Are the overhead gantries etc not already up and in position?
Realistically, what ridership will look like though I don’t know. The Springs was very busy when I was there today, but very few shoppers using the bus services. Whilst there are some housing estates and office development, will that be enough?
 

takno

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Labour voters. There was a lot of that in the 1980s; Cottingley opened before Steeton & Silsden, even though S&S was ready first, for political reasons.

Given the amount of P&R spaces planned I'm wondering if there will be a skip-stop service introduced. The Blackpool North service currently stops at Garforth and Church Fenton; the York shuttle at Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth, Micklefield. The current Hull-Halifax service stops at all stations.

I did note that there was an "interim" platform mentioned. Not sure how that works, if it's an additional one or just opening one platform at a temporary location. If it was actually a west-facing bay, it could finally act as the East Leeds Parkway we were promised when I were a lad. Thorpe Park-Leeds-somewhere else would release a platform at Leeds and provide a fast service for P&R drivers. I've no idea, and I'm not speculating! But I might ask them as part of the consultation. Their image shows two 'regular' platforms with no electrification masts or wires, so I don't know what they know.
I read the interim platform as being a "temporary" structure which is in line with the current tracks, but which would be removed to allow 4 tracking. I could be completely wrong about that though
 

SkinnyFists

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I read the interim platform as being a "temporary" structure which is in line with the current tracks, but which would be removed to allow 4 tracking. I could be completely wrong about that though
This is correct, see my post from nearly two years ago (!) on the main TRU thread
Some plans for Thorpe Park station have been published on Leeds City Council's North and East Plans Panel. The relevant slides are page 36-50 in the Presentation Slides, the most interesting one is on page 42 which shows how Network Rail are proposing to future-proof for 4-tracking by effectively building two down platforms (towards Garforth): a temporary one to serve the current two track layout and a future platform for when (presumably "when" rather than "if" if NR are going to this much effort) the quadrification is implemented. The visualisations also in the slides show the two scenarios.

https://democracy.leeds.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=949&MId=12560&Ver=4



View attachment 169682

[Image shows a general arrangement plan of Thorpe Park station]

The presentation also states the following dates:
- Further planning engagement, Early Spring 2025
- Planning application submitted, Late Spring 2025
- Construction commences, Autumn 2025
- Station open, May 2027
 

wilsontown

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I suppose you could argue that East Garforth should never have built, but since it already exists I doubt it would be politically possible to close it. It's fairly well-used, 185,360 entries/exits in 2024/25.
 

YorksLad12

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This AI-inspired poster was doing the rounds on Facebook, from one of the local councillors.

It mentions most of what's in the consultation, but adds that construction should start in 2027 "subject to approvals" and open during the May-December 2028 timetable.

Oh - and the make-believe train is running the wrong way!
 

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JKF

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Presumably this means the quad tracking will be paired by direction rather than speed? Doesn’t it then get messy at the junction at Micklefield, do they have plans for grade separation there?
 

YorksLad12

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Presumably this means the quad tracking will be paired by direction rather than speed? Doesn’t it then get messy at the junction at Micklefield, do they have plans for grade separation there?

It’s only going to be quad tracked from Cross Gates to under the M1 before Garforth I believe

I haven't seen anything about any four-tracking/passing loops at Thorpe Arch - certainly not on the image they supplied.

The masts for electrification are mostly track-side, except for where the platforms will be in the station area where they're stepped back a bit. There's a bit of room for extra tracks heading east, but no sign of any work to facilitate that. Yet.
 

Andyh82

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(Mods: I'm not seeing a specific Thorpe Park thread, but please move if appropriate.)

West Yorkshire Combined Authority is engaging on plans for Thorpe Park, leading up to the Full Business Case.

Excerpts from the page linked to below:




There's a line in the FAQ that says "The current programme envisages that the station will be in operation in 2027" which is plainly nonsense. The Facebook post I saw shared from a local councillor said 2028. I'm going for 2029, because I'm an optimist
If it goes the same speed as other proposed stations in West Yorkshire, I’d predict 2039 is more likely.

They’ve been talking about Elland for the best part of 30 years
 

YorkshireBear

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Presumably this means the quad tracking will be paired by direction rather than speed? Doesn’t it then get messy at the junction at Micklefield, do they have plans for grade separation there?
If it gets done yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I haven't seen anything about any four-tracking/passing loops at Thorpe Arch - certainly not on the image they supplied.

The masts for electrification are mostly track-side, except for where the platforms will be in the station area where they're stepped back a bit. There's a bit of room for extra tracks heading east, but no sign of any work to facilitate that. Yet.
I've seen passive provision throughout. If you look from Garforth to the M1 generally they are either four track portals (at Cross Gates) or twin track cantilevers. The portal foundations are set much further back than needed, with more expense cutting out the toe of the cutting, in some cases rock. The twin track cantilevers all exclusively seem to be on the side of the line opposite to where additional tracks would go.

So it's certainly passively provisioned in some way.
 
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JKF

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I presume any four tracking would just be from Neville Hill up to Garforth to keep the local stoppers out of the way, but wouldn’t involve the hugely expensive and disruptive work of trying to get four tracks from City Station to Marsh Lane. I know the latter is desirable but it’d require knocking down buildings etc., a bit like doing Piccadilly to Oxford Rd.
 

YorkshireBear

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I presume any four tracking would just be from Neville Hill up to Garforth to keep the local stoppers out of the way, but wouldn’t involve the hugely expensive and disruptive work of trying to get four tracks from City Station to Marsh Lane. I know the latter is desirable but it’d require knocking down buildings etc., a bit like doing Piccadilly to Oxford Rd.
From Cross Gates to about the M1 over bridge is the maximum it would be. Allowing trains stopping at Thorpe Park and Cross Gates to be overtaken.
 

quantinghome

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I presume any four tracking would just be from Neville Hill up to Garforth to keep the local stoppers out of the way, but wouldn’t involve the hugely expensive and disruptive work of trying to get four tracks from City Station to Marsh Lane. I know the latter is desirable but it’d require knocking down buildings etc., a bit like doing Piccadilly to Oxford Rd.
Between Leeds and Cross Gates there is no advantage in putting in four tracking until you get to the point where stopping trains start slowing down for Cross Gates station. This appears to be the plan - the electrification masts change from cantilevers to four-track portals about 800m west of Cross Gates.

From Cross Gates to about the M1 over bridge is the maximum it would be. Allowing trains stopping at Thorpe Park and Cross Gates to be overtaken.
That's about it. Looking at how the electrification has gone in it looks like there is four track passive provision as far as Barwick Road underbridge, with dual cantilevers mounted on the south side of the railway, allowing widening to the North where there is the space (and noting the new overbridge structures are giving space for this as well).
 

YorkshireBear

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Yes I noticed the new overbridge east of cross gates is being set back significantly from its existing abutment position on the north side.
 

Spartacus

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I always think it's funny that the line was built by the Leeds & Selby Railway almost 200 years ago with passive provision for four tracks which was largely never realised, and it's still being done today!
 

YorksLad12

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The portals (is it?) at Cross Gates have to span a greater distance because the platforms are quite far apart. I'm not saying I don't want to see some four-tracking (having been stuck behind a stopper a couple of times recently), I'm saying I haven't seen a definite plan yet. Nor any work during my commute to York and back, though I can see there is space there (and height clearance, I think).

The image on the consultation site shows two tracks and two platforms, although it is possible that they're using an old image. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me, sadly...
 

Spartacus

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Maybe they should fund completion of the half done White Rose station before trying to start another.

I believe they're from different money pots, besides it makes a lot more sense to do Thorpe Park while the line's been done than to do it after.

Plus it'll be great to see the first person who turns up expecting to be near a theme park in Surrey :lol::lol: It WILL happen, plenty go to Alton for Alton Towers and Leeds for Leeds Castle. They've even gone to the wrong Stamford Bridge! :lol:
 

YorkshireBear

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The portals (is it?) at Cross Gates have to span a greater distance because the platforms are quite far apart. I'm not saying I don't want to see some four-tracking (having been stuck behind a stopper a couple of times recently), I'm saying I haven't seen a definite plan yet. Nor any work during my commute to York and back, though I can see there is space there (and height clearance, I think).

The image on the consultation site shows two tracks and two platforms, although it is possible that they're using an old image. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me, sadly...
Those extend either side beyond the station wider than they need to though.
 

JKF

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From Cross Gates to about the M1 over bridge is the maximum it would be. Allowing trains stopping at Thorpe Park and Cross Gates to be overtaken.
At one time there were proposals for a stations at Marsh Lane and around Osmondthorpe (near Neville Hill), but I guess that is in the long grass alongside Armley and other potential suburban station reopenings.
 

GingerSte

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At one time there were proposals for a stations at Marsh Lane and around Osmondthorpe (near Neville Hill), but I guess that is in the long grass alongside Armley and other potential suburban station reopenings.
(Getting the crayons out...) Personally, I reckon Killingbeck (junction of York Road and Selby Road) would be a slightly better place than Osmondthorpe for a suburban station. You've got a fair chunk of derelict land to the east of that roundabout (looks like it used to be an indoor adventure play type thing), and the road access is already set up for it.

I would imagine it being difficult to 4-track at that location due to housing, but if you had 4-track from Cross Gates to Thorpe Park (inclusive), then that would more than offset that.
 

YorksLad12

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Not really. It takes time for the signal behind to clear, so I’d guess that eastbound trains would be overtaken at Thorpe Park/before Garforth, westbound at Cross Gates, if there was four-tracking between those two stations only.

(Which is more or less what @YorkshireBear wrote above.j

Adding a further station at Osmondthorpe/Killingbeck would slow the stopper into the clutches of the next fast service, and you’d be back to where you were.

All of those suburban stations ideas were abandoned (apart from East Garforth) after the first few WY Railplans, probably as traffic levels increased.
 

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