Trains all at a stand in the Manchester area... (Thursday afternoon 06AUG2026)

muz379 · 6 Aug 2026

noddingdonkey said:
Would that be needed in this situation? Couldn't trains be talked past signals (or authorised to proceed at a walking pace and read to stop short of any obstruction, or similar) to a suitable platform in most cases?

Depends on a number of factors. In a situation like what it sounds like has occurred all detection of all equipment was lost so it would have been impossible for the signaller to tell what track circuits were showing occupied due to the failure and what was a train. So without knowing the position of all trains it wouldn't be wise to go giving authority for unsignalled movements

Also if there are points in the route between the trains current location and the platform and their position is not indicated on the panel then the signal can't be passed at danger without someone going out and physically securing them in the correct position. If the track circuits are showing occupied then it also won't be possible to move them using the controls on the panel even if they are detected.

Even if the position of trains and points are known you also have to consider if there is room in the platform for the train. The job was pretty much stopped for an entire area so it's likely trains were trapped in and out of stations.

The industry now recognises that passengers are quick to self evacuate especially when they know they're close to a station like some of these trains were. So probably best whilst the job is stopped and had no prospect of getting going again to perform a controlled evacuation.

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Justin Smith · 6 Aug 2026

Justin Smith said:
We were travelling to Sheffield, originally from Oxford Rd, and took the decision to walk to Piccadilly despite being told "it'd be no better". For once the Gods were smiling on us and we just had time to get on the 14.48 stopper because it left 36min late ! This goes via Romiley not Stockport and actually gained 3 minutes on its journey, arriving Sheff at 16.38. I expected it to be packed, as did the guard, but it wasn't, which was very surprising. In my view a lot of passengers at Piccadilly made the wrong decision......

This is still going on now, that guard (and myself to be fair) was right !

Trothy · 6 Aug 2026

noddingdonkey said:
Would that be needed in this situation? Couldn't trains be talked past signals (or authorised to proceed at a walking pace and read to stop short of any obstruction, or similar) to a suitable platform in most cases?

The train in question had points in front and behind that were showing out of correspondence, so they'd have to be secured before any move could be made. Fortunately the train had stopped close to a staff access, so controlled evacuation was considered the best option.

Brush 4 · 6 Aug 2026

I don't remember whole areas being brought to a halt in the 60's to 80's, perhaps 90's. The eggs in one basket comments seem closer to the truth than anything else.
SPF's shouldn't be possible, it's just blind faith in new tech. If it's new and big and flashy, it must be good seems to be the (il)logic. Except it isn't.

Belperpete · 6 Aug 2026

Class 466 said:
Intriguing how only a couple of sections of the Network are back up and running so many hours later. Points towards something going seriously wrong.

I should imagine the technicians, signallers and controllers are totally overwhelmed getting the system back up and running.

For every track section showing as occupied, they will need to establish what is there, as the train descriptions will likely have been lost. GSMR communications will also be hindered by the loss of train description information. Details of possessions and the like will need re-establishing, as you wouldn't want to allow a train to enter a section that is supposed to be blocked. And the signallers will be trying to do all this while simultaneously fielding a flood of phone calls from drivers and others all trying to get information.

And that is just the signalling controls. If SCADA systems, controllers information systems and the like were also affected, then the workload involved in just getting all the systems repopulated, up to date and in a usable state could be considerable.

And only then can you start thinking about getting trains moving.

And that assumes that everything rebooted automatically without any problems in the first place - if technicians have had to go around manually restarting each individual interlocking, for example, that would take significant time.

I really wouldn't want to be in a signallers or controllers shoes in such a situation.

Peter0124 · 6 Aug 2026

cin88 said:
Traksy and the like aren't exactly reliable today as the train describers and GSMR all went down briefly as part of the failure. Its showing trains in locations where they either aren't or passed through during the incident when leaving ROC areas to the fringes. Train Movement Viewer being down was causing no end of issues for the controllers as they had absolutely no idea where anything actually was whilst signallers were busy trying to establish who was where.

I have noticed RTT showing No Report on trains between Gretna and Carnforth, wonder if that has anything to do with this

Bow Fell · 6 Aug 2026

Belperpete said:
I should imagine the technicians, signallers and controllers are totally overwhelmed getting the system back up and running.

For every track section showing as occupied, they will need to establish what is there, as the train descriptions will likely have been lost. GSMR communications will also be hindered by the loss of train description information. Details of possessions and the like will need re-establishing, as you wouldn't want to allow a train to enter a section that is supposed to be blocked. And the signallers will be trying to do all this while simultaneously fielding a flood of phone calls from drivers and others all trying to get information.

And that is just the signalling controls. If SCADA systems, controllers information systems and the like were also affected, then the workload involved in just getting all the systems repopulated, up to date and in a usable state could be considerable.

And only then can you start thinking about getting trains moving.

And that assumes that everything rebooted automatically without any problems in the first place - if technicians have had to go around manually restarting each individual interlocking, for example, that would take significant time.

I really wouldn't want to be in a signallers or controllers shoes in such a situation.

Worth pointing out a complete loss of all the phones initially, in the ROC as well. Backup mobile phones in use for the RCM and controllers.

Davester50 · 6 Aug 2026

Belperpete said:
For every track section showing as occupied, they will need to establish what is there, as the train descriptions will likely have been lost. GSMR communications will also be hindered by the loss of train description information. Details of possessions and the like will need re-establishing, as you wouldn't want to allow a train to enter a section that is supposed to be blocked. And the signallers will be trying to do all this while simultaneously fielding a flood of phone calls from drivers and others all trying to get information.

As I understand it, the track sections would show as if there's a train is there if there's no power, but when the power comes back, they will go back to clear if there's no train on it.
Is that right?

td97 · 6 Aug 2026

Barrier staff at Manchester Victoria are advising to use Bee Network buses. Quite a disgrace that no rail replacement services have been sourced. For context, a public bus takes 1hr 50 to do the 20 minute rail journey from Manchester to Bolton.

misar · 6 Aug 2026

Apologies if this has already been answered.
The press say there was a wider power supply outage in the Ardwick area. Has there been any explanation of whether the Manchester signalling centre either had no backup power supply or it failed?

pnepaul · 6 Aug 2026

Peter0124 said:
I have noticed RTT showing No Report on trains between Gretna and Carnforth, wonder if that has anything to do with this

It seems that 9s97 1740 Euston to Glasgow and 1s98 1930 Euston to Glasgow are both held in Preston for some time. 1s88 TPE to Glasgow appears to be stopped short of Lancaster.

Also, 9m62 1852 Edinburgh Euston heading north on the down line at Carnforth. Unless it's a glitch on Tracksy!

Belperpete · 6 Aug 2026

Davester50 said:
As I understand it, the track sections would show as if there's a train is there if there's no power, but when the power comes back, they will go back to clear if there's no train on it.
Is that right?

Nothing will show if the Control System has no power! The screens will be totally blank, no track layout, zilch.

I think you are thinking of a local trackside power failure, when what you say would be correct. But this was a failure of the control centre. Once it comes back up, it should show the state of the track circuits as currently reported by the interlockings. And that will depend on the type of interlocking and indication system, and the state they are in. And even once the track circuits are being indicated, the system may have lost all the train descriptions, in which case the TD displays will be blank, and so the signallers will have no clue what, if any, train or trains is in each section showing as occupied.

sharpener · 6 Aug 2026

Elecman said:
Manchester ROC has 2 independent 6.6kV DNO intake feeders fed from a primary substation either of which can feed the entire building by closing the relevant bus bar couplers on the HV panels ( there are some reports of a large part of Ardwick also bring without power) do sounds like it’s a SPENWL issue.

Geeves said:
The word on the street now is that it's the substation it's self has become damaged that supplies the ROC and that's the reason for the continued issues.

misar said:
Apologies if this has already been answered.
The press say there was a wider power supply outage in the Ardwick area. Has there been any explanation of whether the Manchester signalling centre either had no backup power supply or it failed?

FWIW the BBC 10 o/c news said the public supply outage lasted all of 90 secs, this might correspond to the changeover @Elecman talks about. So if the UPS can't cover a gap that short it probably wasn't working in the intended fashion. And wouldn't have been able to bridge until a genny started up either.

QueensCurve · 6 Aug 2026

louis97 said:
Manchester ROC also controls Basford Hall Junction, fringing to Crewe SCC to the north and Rugby ROC Stafford Workstation to the South. This is the junction just south of Crewe where the Independent Lines diverge, so if that workstation is closed/unavailable you basically cannot run trains between Stafford and Crewe via Madeley.

Is Crewe Signalling Centre still a thing. I recall it was described as temporary when it opened in 1985 and last time I looked it was still there - the red shed with a white stripe on it - described as looking like a signal when it first appeared.

bluenoxid · 6 Aug 2026

pnepaul said:
It seems that 9s97 1740 Euston to Glasgow and 1s98 1930 Euston to Glasgow are both held in Preston for some time. 1s88 TPE to Glasgow appears to be stopped short of Lancaster.

Also, 9m62 1852 Edinburgh Euston heading north on the down line at Carnforth. Unless it's a glitch on Tracksy!

National Rail reporting a trespass incident between Preston and Lancaster.

Elecman · 6 Aug 2026

QueensCurve said:
Is Crewe Signalling Centre still a thing. I recall it was described as temporary when it opened in 1985 and last time I looked it was still there - the red shed with a white stripe on it - described as looking like a signal when it first appeared.

Yes it is still operational

thenorthern · 6 Aug 2026

I assume that it was the newish Rail operating centre at Manchester that failed?

I know Rugby was designed to withstand most conventional issues that a building of that importance may face such as being blast-proof, high fencing, UPS backup with backup generator protection from environmental things like flooding.

Big quesitons will likely be asked at Network Rail HQ tonight as it's something they won't want repeated again.

Fokx · 6 Aug 2026

td97 said:
Barrier staff at Manchester Victoria are advising to use Bee Network buses. Quite a disgrace that no rail replacement services have been sourced. For context, a public bus takes 1hr 50 to do the 20 minute rail journey from Manchester to Bolton.

There were hundreds of trains stranded in Yorkshire, Liverpool, Manchester and Warrington. There isn't the number of coaches or buses for the number of passengers and cancelled trains.

On top of that Manchester ROC also houses the control teams for Northern and Transpennine Express who had no power or phone lines.

AGH · 6 Aug 2026

Have had a couple of freight go past me in NLW but nothing passenger yet. Notably both freight came from Springs Branch direction only.

Davester50 · 6 Aug 2026

Belperpete said:
Nothing will show if the Control System has no power! The screens will be totally blank, no track layout, zilch.

I think you are thinking of a local trackside power failure, when what you say would be correct. But this was a failure of the control centre. Once it comes back up, it should show the state of the track circuits as currently reported by the interlockings. And that will depend on the type of interlocking and indication system, and the state they are in. And even once the track circuits are being indicated, the system may have lost all the train descriptions, in which case the TD displays will be blank, and so the signallers will have no clue what, if any, train or trains is in each section showing as occupied.

Well, they're saying on the News at 10 that the control centre lost power for 90 seconds, but I guess there's much more to it than what they're actually reporting.

James268 · 6 Aug 2026

td97 said:
Barrier staff at Manchester Victoria are advising to use Bee Network buses. Quite a disgrace that no rail replacement services have been sourced. For context, a public bus takes 1hr 50 to do the 20 minute rail journey from Manchester to Bolton.

Where would you like the coaches and drivers to come from? There are not busses and drivers stitting around waiting for this to happen.

EYFanatic · 6 Aug 2026

Nicholas Lewis said:
Not sure whats an Ardwick but the bulk of the equipment in a ROC will be fed from UPS's which ought to be sized support signalling and communications equipment for two hours.

An "Ardwick" is an area of Manchester that also has a station - hope this helps

#

Looks like a few trains are starting to head to Manchester from Leeds - 1J43 is on the way as we speak

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2026 ==

Davester50 said:
Well, they're saying on the News at 10 that the control centre lost power for 90 seconds, but I guess there's much more to it than what they're actually reporting.

Hate to suggest it, but could it be "unfriendly" people trying something out for even bigger outages

pokemonsuper9 · 6 Aug 2026

James268 said:
Where would you like the coaches and drivers to come from? There are not busses and drivers stitting around waiting for this to happen.

It's the School Holidays.
There surely isn't that much charter work to cover all of that, for the right price buses would be available, definitely not a quantity enough to run on every line, but they could have at least tried (TfW did and got some buses running Manchester-Warrington, everyone else gave up).

Andyh82 · 6 Aug 2026

James268 said:
Where would you like the coaches and drivers to come from? There are not busses and drivers stitting around waiting for this to happen.

Well there are buses and drivers siting around waiting, that’s the whole point of being on National Rail’s list of rail replacement contractors.

Sourcing enough to make any sort of dint in the crowds is more the issue

td97 · 6 Aug 2026

James268 said:
Where would you like the coaches and drivers to come from? There are not busses and drivers stitting around waiting for this to happen.

Northern frequently cancel last trains and manage to source replacement buses. The fact that none, for any route, have been recruited is appalling.
The disruption has been in place since early afternoon, and sourcing evening buses should have been possible.

James268 · 6 Aug 2026

pokemonsuper9 said:
It's the School Holidays.
There surely isn't that much charter work to cover all of that, for the right price buses would be available, definitely not a quantity enough to run on every line, but they could have at least tried (TfW did and got some buses running Manchester-Warrington, everyone else gave up).

Who's co-ordinating what routes, station calls, ticket acceptance? Then ageeing a rate, driver, unit. Not happening.

Those that sit behind a desk and then say GeT cOAcHeS.

Those that work in the industry........ is what it is.

Parham Wood · 6 Aug 2026

jfollows said:
I had a large computer installation with UPS, I wasn’t responsible for the machine room or for running the system, but I was on site a lot of the time post installation. We had a power cut and the generator kicked in after the batteries kept the systems going, as designed, but the air conditioning was not on the batteries but meant to be powered by the generator. Of course, first time it happened for real, the computers carried on running but the A/C didn’t restart. What to do? said the somewhat panicked facilities manager. “The big red switch” we said. Doesn’t that harm the computers? “No, that’s just a tale to stop people from doing it normally”. We can’t have something like 40 racks at 40kW each running without A/C. The switch was pressed and no harm was done, apart from to user service.
Someone forgot to test this properly, clearly. It happens a lot in IT in my experience - backups running every night without being tested, UPS in place without being tested, that sort of thing.

i saw the same problem in healthcare. The A/C was not on auto start, I think it was changed as a result. Fortunately spotted in time to enable someone to switch them back on.

sh24 · 6 Aug 2026

So there hasn’t been a single train in or out of Manchester Victoria in about 10 hours? Wow.

Was impressed with the visibility of Northern staff at Piccadilly earlier, lots of people out helping customers. Avanti at Euston could learn from that.

JamesT · 6 Aug 2026

Davester50 said:
Well, they're saying on the News at 10 that the control centre lost power for 90 seconds, but I guess there's much more to it than what they're actually reporting.

I think the route director from Network Rail expressed it fairly well. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn5nlvdxpwpo

"We've got to really understand what's gone wrong here, because clearly something has and we've got to make sure we investigate that thoroughly to understand why things haven't restored as we would have expected," said Chris Wright, Route Director NW at Network Rail.

The first thing is that the UPS etc. that is supposed to keep things going in a power interruption hasn’t, so that needs investigation. However the next part is that having gone off, the next thing is why it’s taking so long to get things back up and running.

Parham Wood · 6 Aug 2026

Geeves said:
The word on the street now is that it's the substation it's self has become damaged that supplies the ROC and that's the reason for the continued issues.

Something as major as this should have two separate supplies from different substations, hopefully sufficiently isolated from each other so an electricity network problem affecting both would be rare.

Surely this should have been thought of and identified in a risk assessment?

It will be interesting to see who signed this off and whether cost saving had anything to do with the decision. Will the Government be bothered though? Certainly getting a second supply from a separate independent substation would be a costly business depending on geography.

Trains all at a stand in the Manchester area... (Thursday afternoon 06AUG2026)

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