Wheelchair passengers should be able to travel for free

Egg Centric · 5 Aug 2026

Gareth1990 said:
What about making the disabled Railcard itself free?

I think there's a very good case for this. Most railcards are effectively about market segmentation; the disabled railcard is about that but it is also about equity. While there's an absolutely tiny number of people in wheelchairs who are taking the mickey (there's one going around social media atm I won't link to) almost anyone in a chair is there as a last resort. And frankly even if the policy maker is a heartless bugger they should recognise it's just an insurance policy for themselves... anyone can end up in a wheel chair at any time!

That said, I am not sure that I understand all the criteria for it. It seems incredibly obvious that someone in a wheelchair ought to be eligible. I don't really understand why everyone who uses a hearing aid needs to be eligible. I'm having increasing hearing difficulty myself; I believe that this is mostly neuro-processing + ear wax but it's getting bad enough that I am going to have it looked at soon. There's no obvious reason at all why I ought to get 1/3rd of rail fares for that though, if I do end up with aids. Similarly I don't understand why someone having a vehicle through motability gets it. The vehicle is surely the solution! And so on.

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S101 · 6 Aug 2026

Brilliant, so a dissabled person (wheelchair) on £60000pa would get free travel, but someone not dissabled on £20000pa would not. Eh!? Just because someone is dissabled doesn't mean they're poor.

Bletchleyite · 6 Aug 2026

S101 said:
Brilliant, so a dissabled person (wheelchair) on £60000pa would get free travel, but someone not dissabled on £20000pa would not. Eh!? Just because someone is dissabled doesn't mean they're poor.

To be honest I think someone with a serious disability has enough of a poor start in life that even if they earn £200K I don't begrudge them getting free stuff, easier parking, Motability cars etc.

I would without any doubt rather be able bodied and on minimum wage than in a wheelchair and on 200 grand. I doubt there are many people who would think otherwise, though obviously one doesn't tend to get a choice in the matter.

35B · 6 Aug 2026

More to the point, "mobility impaired" (as per the OP) covers a wide range of conditions, many of which are either transient (e.g. when I was on crutches a few years ago) or well short of wheelchair use. If you extend the definition to "disabled", you expand the catchment significantly without necessarily addressing mobility issues.

If you just apply that discount to anyone who is disabled, all of this would then have to be assessed by junior front line staff with very limited information, in circumstances where free travel would be a strong incentive to fraud (just look at the edge case issues between 16-17 and 16-25 railcards, or the misuse of Blue Badges). The resulting tensions don't need much imagination. That requires some form of proof of eligibility - you might call it a railcard.

If the industry (or government) wish to deepen the discount, then so be it. But as those who for whom that deeper discount would be necessary (i.e. they can't afford travel) will have other issues, there has to be a question of whether the cost of extending this benefit would be an effective use of funds, or in reality just give deeper discounts to those who can already pay for their travel (and, yes, I recognise that this is not a sharp boundary).

But, in general, I'm very wary of conflating the two issues of access and affordability, and just assuming that dealing with affordability will do anything for the real challenge, which is access.

Bletchleyite · 6 Aug 2026

35B said:
More to the point, "mobility impaired" (as per the OP) covers a wide range of conditions, many of which are either transient (e.g. when I was on crutches a few years ago) or well short of wheelchair use. If you extend the definition to "disabled", you expand the catchment significantly without necessarily addressing mobility issues.

If you just apply that discount to anyone who is disabled, all of this would then have to be assessed by junior front line staff with very limited information, in circumstances where free travel would be a strong incentive to fraud (just look at the edge case issues between 16-17 and 16-25 railcards, or the misuse of Blue Badges). The resulting tensions don't need much imagination. That requires some form of proof of eligibility - you might call it a railcard.

Or simply stop being scared of the idea of people being "registered disabled" by way of a diagnosis from a doctor. This sort of system exists in most European countries but not here, and it ensures that rights can be protected because a disabled person carries a card as physical and undeniable proof of what they are entitled to that non-carriers would not be. There can of course be different entitlements based on what the disability is. Reasonable adjustments based on what you see are all very well but often disabilities aren't visible and some people aren't reasonable!

I'd also like to see it extended to temporary disability, e.g. someone on crutches with a broken leg* should probably be allowed to park in disabled parking spaces for the duration of being on crutches because of the need for more space to safely get out of the car. Though perhaps less so free travel for such groups, though I don't really mind either way. From personal experience I was temporarily walking-disabled due to a blood clot (a very swollen leg I could barely bend, and every step was painful), it would have been handy to have that option for a month or two until I recovered.

* Or the person driving them, as it's unlikely they can safely drive themselves.

jon0844 · 6 Aug 2026

We don't need to wonder if such a scheme would be abused (as the blue badge scheme is too, going by independent audits and undercover monitoring by some councils) because we must all remember when during COVID everyone started to wear sunflower lanyards and claimed they had severe asthma.

They aren't wearing them today because there's no benefit in lying anymore, but free travel absolutely would make people lie once more.

I will finish by saying that clearly not everyone is lying, but you can't tell who is and isn't.

A card of some sort to identify a disability would probably help, but those who stand to lose out on the ability to defraud are going to be very vocal in wanting to stop it. I doubt most genuine blue badge holders have any issue with being asked to have it inspected on occasion if it means less fraud and, therefore, less chance of finding all the parking spaces taken.

Bletchleyite · 6 Aug 2026

jon0844 said:
We don't need to wonder if such a scheme would be abused (as the blue badge scheme is too, going by independent audits and undercover monitoring by some councils) because we must all remember when during COVID everyone started to wear sunflower lanyards and claimed they had severe asthma.

They aren't wearing them today because there's no benefit in lying anymore, but free travel absolutely would make people lie once more.

Are lots of people getting free bus travel on the sly with fake cards? I doubt it as they are smartcards and generally have to be scanned for free travel to be available. It would just be an extension of that so far as free travel goes.

They might get passed around a bit, but people do get caught for that, it pops up in Disputes and Prosecutions fairly often, at least with regard to TfL Freedom Passes.

Tetchytyke · 6 Aug 2026

Bletchleyite said:
Or simply stop being scared of the idea of people being "registered disabled" by way of a diagnosis from a doctor.

The UK benefits system moved away from this a long time ago because a disabled person's need for help can vary wildly even between two people with superficially very similar conditions. It's why they don't go off diagnoses now, they go off how well a disabled person is able to carry out tasks which are essential for daily living or getting around.

This goes all the way down to even fairly obvious disabilities. A person with one leg who's learned how to use a prosthetic limb may get less benefit than someone who hasn't learned how to use a prosthetic limb. The ability of a disabled person to use adaptive aids is now taken into account when assessing benefits.

Everything else just flows on from the definitions used in the benefits system, really.

jon0844 said:
We don't need to wonder if such a scheme would be abused (as the blue badge scheme is too, going by independent audits and undercover monitoring by some councils)

The Blue Badge scheme abuse isn't at the point of issue, though, it is at the point of use. The Blue Badges are being issued legitimately to disabled people. What is happening is that the Blue Badges are then being used by other people (family members of the disabled person when the disabled person isn't there is a common one) or, increasingly, they're being stolen from people's cars.

We couldn't make any discount scheme entirely reliant on self-declaration, though, as we saw with the sunflower lanyards. If it would get you free travel, lots of people would just go and buy a wheelchair from eBay.

Bletchleyite · 6 Aug 2026

Tetchytyke said:
We couldn't make any discount scheme entirely reliant on self-declaration, though, as we saw with the sunflower lanyards. If it would get you free travel, lots of people would just go and buy a wheelchair from eBay.

While I agree with the general point, do lots of people do that to get free travel on London buses? Yes, there might technically be a Freedom Pass to show, but because wheelchair users board to the rear you never see them bother about it. It's probably too inconvenient as a means of getting free travel to be honest.

Gareth1990 · 6 Aug 2026

Bletchleyite said:
Or simply stop being scared of the idea of people being "registered disabled" by way of a diagnosis from a doctor. This sort of system exists in most European countries but not here, and it ensures that rights can be protected because a disabled person carries a card as physical and undeniable proof of what they are entitled to that non-carriers would not be. There can of course be different entitlements based on what the disability is. Reasonable adjustments based on what you see are all very well but often disabilities aren't visible and some people aren't reasonable!

I'd also like to see it extended to temporary disability, e.g. someone on crutches with a broken leg* should probably be allowed to park in disabled parking spaces for the duration of being on crutches because of the need for more space to safely get out of the car. Though perhaps less so free travel for such groups, though I don't really mind either way. From personal experience I was temporarily walking-disabled due to a blood clot (a very swollen leg I could barely bend, and every step was painful), it would have been handy to have that option for a month or two until I recovered.

* Or the person driving them, as it's unlikely they can safely drive themselves.

I deeply disagree with the idea of registering the disabled, what if in the future some sort of totalitarian government comes to power and decides that the registered disabled are a burden to society?

Tetchytyke · 6 Aug 2026

Bletchleyite said:
It's probably too inconvenient as a means of getting free travel to be honest.

For low value bus fares, especially in London where wheelchair capacity is very limited, the juice won't be worth the squeeze.

But if we're talking about long distance trips at £100+ each way...

Airlines are seeing increasing numbers of people requesting assistance because they think its a way of avoiding some of the airlines' more punitive baggage policies.

Bletchleyite · 6 Aug 2026

Gareth1990 said:
I deeply disagree with the idea of registering the disabled, what if in the future some sort of totalitarian government comes to power and decides that the registered disabled are a burden to society?

They won't care about whether they are registered or not. They in effect are anyway as the diagnosis will be on NHS records.

AlterEgo · 6 Aug 2026

Gareth1990 said:
I deeply disagree with the idea of registering the disabled, what if in the future some sort of totalitarian government comes to power and decides that the registered disabled are a burden to society?

They would know who is disabled anyway due to medical records and benefit claims. The objections to mandatory disability registration are more around the reasons @Tetchytyke gives upthread. There are various local schemes for registering disability anyway, for example local authorities may often keep a (voluntary) register of blind people.

kijeta · 6 Aug 2026

Gareth1990 said:
I deeply disagree with the idea of registering the disabled, what if in the future some sort of totalitarian government comes to power and decides that the registered disabled are a burden to society?

My home country of Hong Kong does register disabled residents (under the Central Registry of Rehabilitation) - and employers can legally pay us below minimum wage just because we're on the register... Please don't let this happen here.

yorksrob · 6 Aug 2026

Bletchleyite said:
I would without any doubt rather be able bodied and on minimum wage than in a wheelchair and on 200 grand. I doubt there are many people who would think otherwise, though obviously one doesn't tend to get a choice in the matter.

I agree with the sentiment, however it doesn't follow that I automatically think that that person should get rail travel for free - particularly if they are on a high income.

signed · 6 Aug 2026

In the ROI, If one gets disability/blindness/carers allowances (or are 65+, or medically unfit to drive), they get a Free Travel Pass that is valid on all forms of public transport and even most private coach lines.

ENTCS + Disabled Persons railcard is a perfectly fair system IMO, a countrywide free travel on trains would quickly be unsustainable especially with the lack of accessible infrastructure at a lot of stations. ROI is much smaller.

styles · 7 Aug 2026

I feel like a fair amount of opposition to this is loosely based on the notion that there's, for want of a better phrasing, too many people classified as disabled.

Wheelchair users specifically do get significant discounts already - up to 50% off flexible tickets on the National Rail network, free travel on some local stopping services/certain council areas, and £39 flat fares for Eurostar Premier (and for one companion also) which is a bargain. It seems to work fine and I've never really heard any opposition to such discounts or free travel.

But there appears to be a concern about e.g. disabled people with mental health conditions getting free travel, and where the line is drawn. I suspect that view extends far beyond the railway - the criticism of Motability, benefits, etc is all part of it.

35B · 7 Aug 2026

styles said:
I feel like a fair amount of opposition to this is loosely based on the notion that there's, for want of a better phrasing, too many people classified as disabled.

Wheelchair users specifically do get significant discounts already - up to 50% off flexible tickets on the National Rail network, free travel on some local stopping services/certain council areas, and £39 flat fares for Eurostar Premier (and for one companion also) which is a bargain. It seems to work fine and I've never really heard any opposition to such discounts or free travel.

But there appears to be a concern about e.g. disabled people with mental health conditions getting free travel, and where the line is drawn. I suspect that view extends far beyond the railway - the criticism of Motability, benefits, etc is all part of it.

True - but the flip side of that is that the definition of "disabled" is moving and many (myself included) struggle with it's breadth. That leads to the question of need, where the correlation of some conditions with a need for additional support is not always obvious. A common example in discussions that comes up here is the eligibility of the deaf for Disabled Railcards, where the correlation between condition and benefit is not obvious.

I understand that it's a result of how the wider eligibility criteria work, and designed to avoid front line staff having to probe individual's medical history, but only through discussion here. Scale that up, and there's room for a wealth of misunderstanding.

yorksrob · 7 Aug 2026

signed said:
In the ROI, If one gets disability/blindness/carers allowances (or are 65+, or medically unfit to drive), they get a Free Travel Pass that is valid on all forms of public transport and even most private coach lines.

These are clearly people most in need, however, if I were designing a system for the UK, I still don't see why fares should be free. Substantially discounted, yes but free, no.

How are fares distributed in the RoI ? Are non-discounted fare payers expected to make up the difference ?

signed · 7 Aug 2026

yorksrob said:
How are fares distributed in the RoI ? Are non-discounted fare payers expected to make up the difference ?

https://www.audit.gov.ie/media/azsks5xa/15-control-of-the-free-travel-scheme.pdf

For most of tendered bus network, the operator (Bus Eireann and Go-ahead Ireland) bills the state for 60% of the undiscounted fare based on actual pass validations

Same system from Translink for ROI holders of NI Senior (+65 only) SmartPass

For CIÉ rail and bus (Dublin Bus, Enterprise…) it’s capped annual payment, with a separate capped annual payment for commercial CIÉ Expressway coach services.

Luas get capped payment on survey.

And the commercial coach operators are on uncapped annual based on surveys.

yorksrob · 7 Aug 2026

signed said:
https://www.audit.gov.ie/media/azsks5xa/15-control-of-the-free-travel-scheme.pdf

For most of tendered bus network, the operator (Bus Eireann and Go-ahead Ireland) bills the state for 60% of the undiscounted fare based on actual pass validations

Translink does the same for Irish holders of NI Senior (only) SmartPass

For CIÉ rail and bus (Dublin Bus, Enterprise…) it’s capped annual payment, with a separate capped annual payment for commercial CIÉ Expressway coach services.

Luas get capped payment on survey and the commercial coach operators are on uncapped annual based on surveys.

Thanks, that's interesting. So if I'm understanding correctly, it's like our old persons bus pass.

Wheelchair passengers should be able to travel for free

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