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How is a commuter only train defined?

Watershed

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I also thought the description of the service as "commuter-only" was odd. Yes, the Bedford to Three Bridges Thameslink service will carry passengers making international travel connections at Luton Airport and St Pancras, but who's to say there aren't people boarding the Crewe service following arrivals from abroad having e.g. walked from St Pancras or taken the tube from Heathrow? Weird.

To me, the article highlighted the negative effects of centralisation and the disparity in the cost of living between London and the rest of the country. If commuting from Walsall to London is preferable to simply living closer to London then something has gone seriously wrong. Not sure what exactly LNR or any other train operator are expected to do about it.
A very simple change that would reduce overcrowding would be to allow passengers on the 17:43 Avanti service to set down at Milton Keynes and to reduce the cost of the "Any Permitted" fare between London and Milton Keynes to either the "LNR only" or "Avanti only" fare".

Currently the above service is "pick up" only, but the loadings clearly indicate it's a fresh air express (only 60 seats are reserved tonight even though reservations are nominally compulsory). The "pick up" restriction is really just intended to prevent splitting at Milton Keynes, which would allow a huge saving to be made on journeys heading further north due to Avanti's usurious Anytime fares.

Similarly the Thameslink Bedford to Three Bridges service listed as one of the most overcrowded is only 8 coaches. Thameslink has a huge fleet of 12 coach trains - why isn't one used on this service? Apparently it's a convenient move to get an 8 coach unit into Three Bridges depot - but that should be the absolute last priority when there are no doubt a thousand other ways of achieving it. They just might mean a bit more ECS mileage and thus drivers and costs.

Unfortunately the rail industry is far too obsessed with revenue maximisation and cost reduction to allow a sensible utilisation of the available capacity. It's a prime example of how it lacks the correct incentives to achieve good outcomes for passengers.
 
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Swedenorer

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It boils down to the usual I am entitled to a train seat when I want it to where I want it - but nobody else is. Sometimes you have to live with the choices you make. Forty four years ago I could have written the same story about every HST picking up at Reading heading for Bristol from say 17.00-19.30 weekdays. But back then it wouldn't have replaced hard news.
 
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yorkie

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It boils down to the usual I am entitled to a train seat when I want it to where I want it - but nobody else is. Sometimes you have to live with the choices you make. Forty four years ago I could have written the same story about every HST picking up at Reading heading for Bristol from say 17.00-19.30 weekdays. But back then it wouldn't have replaced hard news.
This is a very different scenario to Reading/Paddington to Bristol

Avanti trans are deliberately priced at a huge premium around this time, with set-down restrictions and the intention by the 'powers that be' in charge of railways is very much for those trains to be carting plenty of fresh air, while West Midlands Trains services can be crush loaded.
 

norbitonflyer

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The original definition of "commuter" was someone using a "commutation ticket" (a season ticket). As far as i know no trains have ever been provided for the exclusive use of such people.

But since there is now no clear definition of a commuter, there cannot be such a thing as a "commuter-only" train. Most people on board may be travelling to or from work, but some will be traveliing to go to or from a holiday or other personal business (funeral, court appearance, hospital appointment....)
 

Starmill

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WMT's own data suggests that the 1756 has approximately 25% more people onboard than this service, despite being formed of a much smaller train.

To put it another way, the 1746 is one of the best LNR services to go for around this time, and most of the others around this time will feel more cramped.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The original definition of "commuter" was someone using a "commutation ticket" (a season ticket). As far as i know no trains have ever been provided for the exclusive use of such people.

But since there is now no clear definition of a commuter, there cannot be such a thing as a "commuter-only" train. Most people on board may be travelling to or from work, but some will be traveliing to go to or from a holiday or other personal business (funeral, court appearance, hospital appointment....)
Indeed. Especially as it's August, absolutely loads of the people on that train will have been for a day out shopping, visiting friends, on their way to Manchester for a few days away etc etc
 
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JonathanH

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WMT's own data suggests that the 1756 has approximately 25% more people onboard than this service, despite being formed of a much smaller train.

To put it another way, the 1746 is one of the best LNR services to go for around this time, and most of the others around this time will feel more cramped.
RTT suggests that both the 1746 and 1756 from Euston are now booked 10-730. The 1819 (pick up Watford, then Milton Keynes and Northampton) is only 5-730.

The effective challenge though is having paths on the fast line for LNR services, which will remain tricky for the next 15 years until HS2 provides relief.
 

wilsontown

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I did think, based on the photos accompanying the article, "that doesn't look so bad". There's space to sit in vestibules. It's not a crush-loaded train, I've been on way worse than that. It's not great either and I wouldn't want to be doing it on a regular basis.
 

NCT

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Unfortunately the rail industry Treasury is far too obsessed with revenue maximisation and cost reduction to allow a sensible utilisation of the available capacity. It's a prime example of how it lacks the correct incentives to achieve good outcomes for passengers.

Corrected for you.
 

Swedenorer

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This is a very different scenario to Reading/Paddington to Bristol

Avanti trans are deliberately priced at a huge premium around this time, with set-down restrictions and the intention by the 'powers that be' in charge of railways is very much for those trains to be carting plenty of fresh air, while West Midlands Trains services can be crush loaded.
The factor you outline was nowhere in the piece - if it had been then that would have been worth reporting and analysing. My comment was about the fact that the 'story' was written at all and whether it really was news. And I suppose the fact I could have written similar about a number of BR(SR) trains over the years too.
 

yorkie

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The factor you outline was nowhere in the piece - if it had been then that would have been worth reporting and analysing. My comment was about the fact that the 'story' was written at all and whether it really was news. And I suppose the fact I could have written similar about a number of BR(SR) trains over the years too.
I don't doubt the underlying story is true; the train is known for being extremely busy, and the photos are clearly absolutely real.

It is a real issue, but the article is poorly written.

Yes someone could have written similar about other trains, but this is a very deliberately engineered situation created by the railway itself; the fact the article failed to mention the causes demonstrates how poor the journalists are at their jobs.

But it's absolutely not comparable to historical crowding under BR.
 
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Deepgreen

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The original definition of a commuter was a rail traveller who used a season ticket, I believe. By that definition, no UK train can qualify I imagine. The media generally refer to all passengers as commuters. Even if the definition is slackened to mean passengers travelling to/from work, I doubt if any such train exists.
 

45Fox

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The original definition of a commuter was a rail traveller who used a season ticket, I believe. By that definition, no UK train can qualify I imagine. The media generally refer to all passengers as commuters. Even if the definition is slackened to mean passengers travelling to/from work, I doubt if any such train exists.

That's what I understand as the origin of the term commuter.
I read once that it came about because the traveller had 'commuted' paying daily for a ticket into paying weekly/monthly/etc.
 

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