Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Well, that answers the mystery from a few months ago, then...
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A New Series of "Fare Dodgers At War With the Law..."
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Buzby
Established Member
I thought I was being ultra pernickety that the programme was mostly filler - if they didn’t break up the incidents into ‘manageable’ chunks there would be little need for a recap or after-the-break reminders. If it was designed to build up tension, it has failed miserably - so now if I remember it’s on and I’m not doing something more enjoyable (like a RailForum meal) I’ll catch it, but otherwise I can manage without. At best, it’s a half-hour programme extended to fill space, nothing more.
Heyy knew there were more! Hopefully there are more after those 2 but I doubt it, maybe a season 3 someday...
Mcr Warrior
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 8 Jan 2009
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- 17,166
Surprised that the series producers haven't yet gone with revised repeats masquerading as "new" episodes. 
SouthernOne
Member
There should be 10 episodes in series 2
So episode 7 was more of the same. loads of fare dodgers stopped on Clapham Junction overbridge but no overall theme. Chuckled when the young woman said she was going to walk to Bourne End, if she really wanted to go there why was she even at Clapham Junction? Watched them all but not really sure why.
ctom_s
Member
I wasn't quite sure what happened with the serial fare dodger at Ilford in the end, they gave up cos she wouldn't admit the card was hers? But surely she'll never use it again so they'll never catch her now? And all the threats to get the police were for nothing? I may rewatch it was only half paying attention.
EDIT: looks like they were going to bring her back for a taped interview
EDIT: looks like they were going to bring her back for a taped interview
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Blinkbonny
Member
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- 410
Photographic evidence presumably.
They seemed to have plenty.
They seemed to have plenty.
ctom_s
Member
Yeah feels like it should be a pretty open and shut case, but the post episode blurb seemed to imply more work was needed
And wrongly stating you need to show ID and demanding to see someone's Apple ID. If this is what they are like when being filmed, what do they get up to normally ?
Mattplans
Member
Interested in the logistics of revenue inspections at Clapham and stations that have so many operators. I can only see London Overground and SWR inspectors in this episode - can they issue penalties for journeys made on Southern network? If not, could a passenger not just have claimed to travel on a Southern train to get away with it?
I understand at stations managed by Network Rail, most employees although wearing NR uniforms will be employed by ToCs? I travel with Southeastern and most of the gatelines in SE/TL territory are staffed by the same people you might find on southeastern platforms. Whereas, it's clearer that the staff on the TL platforms are GTR employees as well as the one's that staff the gateline on plats 10+ , Is this any different at CLJ considering the variety of operators there?
edit 1- Well, in this episode the RPI does actually issue the Mum presumably on benefits a penalty fare for a journey from Thornton Heath. I guess that answers part of my question.
I understand at stations managed by Network Rail, most employees although wearing NR uniforms will be employed by ToCs? I travel with Southeastern and most of the gatelines in SE/TL territory are staffed by the same people you might find on southeastern platforms. Whereas, it's clearer that the staff on the TL platforms are GTR employees as well as the one's that staff the gateline on plats 10+ , Is this any different at CLJ considering the variety of operators there?
edit 1- Well, in this episode the RPI does actually issue the Mum presumably on benefits a penalty fare for a journey from Thornton Heath. I guess that answers part of my question.
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Mattplans
Member
I think the inspectors are really pushing it demanding passengers to show their id. Am I right in saying you're under no obligation to give railway employees any sort of ID? I think they've lost their minds trying to force passengers to show them their Apple ID or social media??? to satisfy their doubts. If they've got doubts, that's their issue. it cannot come at the expense of civil liberties and rights of the public. When a rpi asks for someone's id, I think they are relying on the fact that they don't know they're entitled to decline that request and are under no obligation to volunteer any form of identification. I fear a lot of inexperienced invidiuals may conflate RPIs with police in their minds.
Question; if you're stopped by Revenue and you give your details and they're not satisfied with that. Is it still an offence to leave the station?
I think there's a huge privacy line being crossed exposed by this show. I'm happy the show is at least (unintentionally) exposing the footprint left when you purchase tickets online as seen in the previous eps. Not to assosciate myself with those people, but cash is really "king". I think a lot of people don't understand you're allowing yourself to be tracked by companies like this when you purchase tickets.
Question; if you're stopped by Revenue and you give your details and they're not satisfied with that. Is it still an offence to leave the station?
I think there's a huge privacy line being crossed exposed by this show. I'm happy the show is at least (unintentionally) exposing the footprint left when you purchase tickets online as seen in the previous eps. Not to assosciate myself with those people, but cash is really "king". I think a lot of people don't understand you're allowing yourself to be tracked by companies like this when you purchase tickets.
Refusing to provide the details you're legally obliged to provide (name and address, and also DoB if being issued with a Penalty Fare) is an offence. Providing false details is an offence.
There is no obligation to provide ID and refusing to do so is not grounds for being detained unless it's by the police. RPIs have no power of detention merely because they suspect false details.
I agree, it's really quite concerning how TOCs are getting hold of this data and how they're using it. They will say it's all in the name of preventing and detecting fraud but we have seen a number of cases where they are either mistaken, or are simply making inferences and accusations they do not have any proof for. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the ORR review into revenue protection policies is having any effect - operators seem to be behaving just as badly as they ever have, in fact they seem to be constantly coming up with new ways to use any data they can get hold of.
TheJester
Member
I’ve learned a lot about fare evasion from this series. Pushing through the barriers, using a dead bank card to either reach around or use an exit gate to get out. RPI’s have no power of detention and there are rarely police backing them up. I‘m not sure the series is having it’s desired outcome!
They do actually, but it's seldom used.
From Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889:
TheJester
Member
Taken. But did you see how many passengers simply ignored them when challenged and pushed through the gates?
Ultimately it's not worth putting one's life on the line for the sake of a small fare. Better to accumulate evidence, build a case, and target an interception.
MartinC
Member
Very disappointed! A very polite RPI on the train but no TV cameras, Yes I did have a valid ticket
tram21
Established Member
It might interest you all to know that as part of the next season of Fare Dodgers, filming has been taking place with the revenue teams at NET Tram in Nottingham.
Mattplans
Member
In addition to the above, a filming crew has been spotted at Hayes & Harlington station in West London. I imagine they're going for the same model as last time, splitting between NET and TFL.
New series tonight on Channel 5. Looks like it's SWR, TfL and NET this series.
I did think it was a bit of a cop out that the man who pleaded guilty for fare evasion on the TfL network only had to pay £240 total when his fare evasion was over £2000!
Next week's episode which focuses on NET looks intense!
I did think it was a bit of a cop out that the man who pleaded guilty for fare evasion on the TfL network only had to pay £240 total when his fare evasion was over £2000!
Next week's episode which focuses on NET looks intense!
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Fiyero
Member
Don't think I'll bother paying for tickets anymore.
Image of TV show:
"And the man stopped by TfL investigators owing over £2000 pleaded guilty at court.
He was fined £40 plus £100 compensation and £100 costs"
Attachments
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SouthernOne
Member
He may have paid £240 but he does get a criminal record from it! That’s still enough of a deterrent to most people who need a clean DSB
I assume by pleading guilty, the amount paid was reduced.
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And that only applies to certain careers, albeit ones with a large workforce.
Mattplans
Member
Agreed. A fully fleged adult walking around shamelessly and confidently fare evading is clearly not deterred by a criminal record. These threats are most effective for young people and those in careers where it's not acceptable. Regulars to Disputes & Prosecutions will also know TfL byelaw offences are non-recordable for DBS checks.
Worth noting that an attachment of earnings is also considered. So, it seems they may have been truthful when they stated they were unemployed. I did think to myself when they said that, that they're doing an awful lot of travelling (and fare evading) for someone that does not work.
Insane. Does that even cover the investigating costs?
Worth noting that an attachment of earnings is also considered. So, it seems they may have been truthful when they stated they were unemployed. I did think to myself when they said that, that they're doing an awful lot of travelling (and fare evading) for someone that does not work.
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Last night's episode 2 had an almost identical TFL fare dodger, caught eventually from his daily transits through Seven Kings. Didn't note down the figures but for a £3k cumulative fare evasion he was charged very similar to last week's one.
The programme spent some time on the Nottingham Trams. One of those found dodging said he had come from outside the area and didn't know the rules. I had a trip up to Nottingham last year and although I didn't use the trams (they don't go to City hospital but the buses do and they are free with my ENTCS pass..) but passing the tram stops it was not immediately clear what sort of tickets were needed and that you had to tap them before getting on a tram. I can certainly appreciate a visitor doing it wrong.
The series is now getting very repetitive.
The programme spent some time on the Nottingham Trams. One of those found dodging said he had come from outside the area and didn't know the rules. I had a trip up to Nottingham last year and although I didn't use the trams (they don't go to City hospital but the buses do and they are free with my ENTCS pass..) but passing the tram stops it was not immediately clear what sort of tickets were needed and that you had to tap them before getting on a tram. I can certainly appreciate a visitor doing it wrong.
The series is now getting very repetitive.