I agree. The thing is more and more it is pressure for short term results that rules. Possibly because social media means politicians need short snappy things to say and long winded justifications just fall over due to the shortening attention span of the average reader.
Two decades, and none at all, unless you count the HSTs.
Becoming (has already become) too late to be an excuse to electrify more routes. Another lost opportunity.
I think I am correct in saying that 458s were built for dual voltage, they have a lot of the required bits but not the actual equipment for AC. I understand that when a driver keys in on a 458 he has to select AC or DC mode, or at least this was the case before they were refurbished and may still be so. They should therefore be quite easy to fit up as AC, but of course there is the cost and the fact that the equipment may well be out-dated by now.
SE already require a hefty subsidy so adding an extra 250k/day is going to take some convincing the DfT to support. Thats not forgetting that DfT had to to bankroll an extra £50m/annum on the 701 lease all this against needing to find £500m savings each year. I would imagine though that Northerns order likely to be looked upon more favorably given Burnhams predilection for Northern cities.
It seems that converting old-ish EMUs to Bi-Modes is not a path to success. Be so nice just to electrify complete routes - KISS as they say.
They must have a contract almost signed to build something after the 345s, otherwise Burnham is going to have almighty backlash when it transpires he was at the factory announcing this education plan, only for this company to then have no work alongside it.5 days ago Andy Burnham was at Alstom’s National Training Academy at Derby Litchurch Lane Works "where he announced the launch of new technical education routes".UK Prime Minister visits Alstom's Litchurch Lane factory in Derby
UK Prime Minister Andy Burnham met around 100 apprentices and graduates in Alstom’s National Training Academy at Derby Litchurch Lane Works, providing the backdrop for changes to the education systemwww.alstom.com
Alstrom has bid for, probably also pushing, to get a new train contract? The press release also says "A three-year research programme and a £35 million investment culminated in the development of Adessia for the UK"
Is SE's subsidy still that bad? The upcoming restoration of pre-covid frequencies on the Dartford lines, along with 2tph all day, all week on the Sheerness branch and Tunbridge Wells' extras all day Mon-Sat would not have been approved if the subsidy was still unsustainably large.
Subsidy was £415m for FY 24/25
You can't blame the government for the shambles Network Rail made of the CP5 electrification programme, that caused wiring plans to be truncated, paused or abandoned in 2015.
Derby already has the XC 22x and ScotRail 222 refurb contracts alongside the HS2 rolling stock contract with Hitachi so the site isn't closing. Alstom just need to actually win a new build contract from the numerous ones on offer, it's not the UK taxpayers job to keep Derby open.
Lets hope that moves the financial case back to electrification and pure EMU's as the way forward instead of Hybrids / BEMU options as currently planned.
Slightly puzzled.
Thanks for this; this value is worse than the £250k a day quoted above, more like over a million a day. Southeastern must have been able to prove the timetable uplift in December would bring in more passenger revenue than increase in running costs.
...what could possibly go wrong?!
Possibly a misunderstanding here. The £250k per day I alluded to is the potential INCREASE in SE's op ex if new trains were to be leased, it's not the total op ex. Whatever subsidy SE are currently receiving to make up for the deficit in income vs. op ex would potentially increase by c. £91M pa.
Ah, but one can blame the government - or at least give it equal responsibility. An example is the Great Western route modernisation and electrification as described in the National Audit Office's November 2016 report Modernising the Great Western railway[1]. A couple of quotes:
and
So, the Treasury refused to cover the cost increases caused by the DfT's indecision in the extent and scheduling of the electrification and top speed of the trains using it. Combined with, for example, Network Rail ordering a factory train to install electrification equipment before the overhead system design had been completed the result was inevitable.
I feel like we're in the bust bit of the boom and bust cycle. That said, within the next few years we can expect the Northern and ScotRail orders, the 897s, the HS2 895s, the 345s, the SE Networker replacements, the new TPE trains, whatever ends up happening with Project Churchward for GWR, Chiltern, and SWR, the new Piccadilly and Bakerloo line stock (TfL seems convinced it's getting them for the Bakerloo too, so sure, whatever), new GC IETs, more IETs for Lumo and Hull Trains, the new EWR trains, some more new trains for TfW, and probably some trams. That's a pretty good number of new trains, and doesn't include speculative orders, like XC potentially getting new trains or EMR replacing their Turbostars. It also doesn't include other things these factories build, like people movers and stuff like that.
Unfortunately common sense went out the window after the Reeves budget. Until we have a Chancellor that is capable of not manipulating economic performance and a government that seeks nothing but short-termism, we will have to wait
One of the deliverables from the change to GBR is for NR/DfTO to produce a rolling stock strategy allegedly in Summer 26!!
Labour government....
Because they're the infrastructure part of the statement "Rolling stock and infrastructure strategy"?
Sodium is very cost competitive but it comes with a much lower energy and volumetric density which are more critical attributes for BEMUs. Lithium Titanate still offers the best solution for traction but we are way off being able to pack enough power in space available to get very far without recharging. This maybe challenging issue that stalling orders from Northern and Scotrail.
The point stands though, even to hold off for 3-4 years will see a huge leap in battery technology; this obviously has its downside, with keeping the construction lines busy and people in employment.
Very very good point that I completely overlooked post amended!
