Short faring issue - SWR Request for contact

WesternLancer · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
I have not had any questioning or penalty fares at all let alone last 7 months - why would this be an issue just out of interest ?

If they catch you red handed evading fares eg stop you without a valid ticket, question you (where probably admit that you got on the train without a ticket) they have the evidence to bring a successful criminal prosecution against you for fare evading which they are almost gauranteed to win in court.
You would be punished with a court fine and receive a criminal record for the offence. They have 6 months to bring such a case to court from the date they caught the person ofending.

In practice this can often be avoided by seeking to settle out of court. They typically then make payment of all the other evasion they discover a condition of such a settlement. Don’t pay- then they will prosecute you for the occasion they can.
Since many people will “pay anything not to go to court” then they have you over a barrel to pay all those evaded fares

But if they haven’t caught you they don’t have that evidence. Unless of course you reply to an email like this and start ‘singing like a canary’. Ie incriminating yourself.

They might try to pursue a civil court case against you for debt of unpaid fares. But that’s not going to result in a criminal record or criminal prosecution. So the consequences for you are much less severe. If it even happened. That would just result in a CCJ to pay a debt.

And if they did start such a civil court case against you they would write again to tell you this. Or the court would.

So there is no incentive for you to reply to a message like this.

If you hear from them again. Head back here for advice before responding.

RailUK Forums

Egg Centric · 14 Jul 2026

WesternLancer said:
But if they haven’t caught you they don’t have that evidence. Unless of course you reply to an email like this and start ‘singing like a canary’. Ie incriminating yourself.

Said "singing like a canary" is why you're getting mixed advice from us about whether to continue using your season ticket. It is possible that if scanned by RPIs then it could set off some sort of alert to them and you could be questioned about your prior activity. Now as far as I'm aware, we've not collectively seen this as a forum with the exception of targeted stings, almost always from TfL. It's unlikely in your case and anyhow easily defeated by you staying shtum (technically you don't even need to give your details so long as you are showing them a valid ticket). But given your first instinct was indeed to start "singing" it would be remiss not to mention the possibility... plus also there's a bit of a "karma" thing too. For your own risk assessment purposes though, it is pretty unlikely.

JH1081 · 14 Jul 2026

Blaine said:
You said you were prepared to pay whatever is owed... put your season ticket in a drawer and don't use it. It increases the likelihood of you being stopped and questioned.

Use a different retailer to buy new tickets, never cheat again, don't respond to any emails from them and - if you are stopped by people looking for you - don't say anything but your name and address.

Thanks for the advice!

Would it potentially flag up on their system when using my legitimate season ticket that I’m under review for short fared journeys ?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

Egg Centric said:
Said "singing like a canary" is why you're getting mixed advice from us about whether to continue using your season ticket. It is possible that if scanned by RPIs then it could set off some sort of alert to them and you could be questioned about your prior activity. Now as far as I'm aware, we've not collectively seen this as a forum with the exception of targeted stings, almost always from TfL. It's unlikely in your case and anyhow easily defeated by you staying shtum (technically you don't even need to give your details so long as you are showing them a valid ticket). But given your first instinct was indeed to start "singing" it would be remiss not to mention the possibility... plus also there's a bit of a "karma" thing too. For your own risk assessment purposes though, it is pretty unlikely.

So is the safest course of action to put away the season ticket and purchase new tickets on a different account are you saying ? Thanks

WesternLancer · 14 Jul 2026

Egg Centric said:
Said "singing like a canary" is why you're getting mixed advice from us about whether to continue using your season ticket. It is possible that if scanned by RPIs then it could set off some sort of alert to them and you could be questioned about your prior activity. Now as far as I'm aware, we've not collectively seen this as a forum with the exception of targeted stings, almost always from TfL. It's unlikely in your case and anyhow easily defeated by you staying shtum (technically you don't even need to give your details so long as you are showing them a valid ticket). But given your first instinct was indeed to start "singing" it would be remiss not to mention the possibility... plus also there's a bit of a "karma" thing too. For your own risk assessment purposes though, it is pretty unlikely.

I think this is well put.

JH1081 · 14 Jul 2026

WesternLancer said:
I think this is well put.

Think my most concerning issue now is my address on my SWR account. Do you know if this information is stored locally or on their main database - ie. If I deleted it would they still have access to it on their systems ? Thanks

WesternLancer · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Think my most concerning issue now is my address on my SWR account. Do you know if this information is stored locally or on their main database - ie. If I deleted it would they still have access to it on their systems ? Thanks

I don’t know. But you have to assume they could still access it if they wanted.
But the advice above to ‘movie to the shadows’ is well put.

Put all this into context. They have hundreds possibly thousands of people dodging fares every day. It’s likely that hundreds of those e nails like the one you got were sent out. I suspect they have low hanging fruit to gather. Try to put yourself in a position that isn’t low hanging.
I doubt they are going to start searching for you with a fine tooth comb if there are other pro find more easily.

MotCO · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Think my most concerning issue now is my address on my SWR account. Do you know if this information is stored locally or on their main database - ie. If I deleted it would they still have access to it on their systems ? Thanks

I also don't know. But if they stop you and your season ticket is 'marked' by the system as being owned by a 'person of interest', they will be able to get your address that way, so as previously said, if you can avoid using it, it may be in your best interest.

SuspectUsual · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Think my most concerning issue now is my address on my SWR account. Do you know if this information is stored locally or on their main database - ie. If I deleted it would they still have access to it on their systems ? Thanks

I'd be absolutely staggered if their system didn't keep an archive of historic addresses, not so much because they particularly need it, but because systems like that generally have that functionality and I expect the SWR one was adapted from an off-the-peg solution rather than built from scratch. And when adapting an off-the-peg solution the aim is always to minimise the number of changes as every change costs money, so often companies end up with bits of functionality they don't really need. Others may know the specifics of SWR's system better

Tetchytyke · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Thanks for the advice!

Would it potentially flag up on their system when using my legitimate season ticket that I’m under review for short fared journeys ?

Potentially, but probably not.

The important question is whether the season ticket you now hold correctly covers your entire journey. If it does not do so, then you should stop using the ticket, you should arrange for the ticket to be swapped for a ticket which does correctly cover your entire journey, or you should buy additional tickets to correctly cover your journey. You may prefer to do the former so that you don't give them more information but, as they know your home address, they can probably already take an educated guess as to your actual origin station.

There are only two ways they can prove to the criminal standard that you were short-faring: either they catch you in the act, or you admit it (either intentionally or unwittingly). With ticket scans they can probably prove that someone using your account used the ticket but they can't prove anything more than that- they can't prove who it was, nor where they travelled from.

JH1081 said:
Think my most concerning issue now is my address on my SWR account. Do you know if this information is stored locally or on their main database - ie. If I deleted it would they still have access to it on their systems ? Thanks

Your details are stored by the retailer and your details can be passed by that retailer to SWR prosecutions team. It is easier if the retailer is also SWR, obviously. You have the right to request deletion of your data but, under GDPR, they do not have to comply if there are good reasons why they shouldn't. Suspecting you of crime would be one such reason.

The short answer is they have your details and you can't do anything about it.

WesternLancer · 14 Jul 2026

Process and rules ref Season ticket refunds are dealt with here - sections 4 and 5 tho the OP may want to read all of this info

Season Tickets Terms and Conditions | National Rail

The terms and conditions for Season tickets and Flexi Season tickets. These tickets are available for most short and medium distance journeys on the National Rail network.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

I've no idea whether applying for a refund for the season from the retailer used for the un-used portions of it (not sure if the OP has indicated where they have been typically buying tickets and seasons from) might trigger 'interest' or not.

I guess much of this related to OP's appetite for risk balanced against how much money is at stake - eg the eligible refund sum vs the financial consequences of further more detailed investigation into past evasion and the costs of paying that if anything escalated to court action (which I assume in this case would probably have to be civil court action for fares owed) - which I would think is likely to be the total costs of the fares evaded potentially demanded at the expensive Anytime Fare - plus some admin costs.

gray1404 · 14 Jul 2026

Is the season ticket a paper ticket or is it on a smart card?

Haywain · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Would you carry on using the monthly season pass if you’ve already used it (only for one day) or leave that as well ?

Carry on using it. There is no risk to you if the season ticket covers your whole journey. SWR want you to pay the correct fares. They would like to recover what you should have paid but have no pressure over you to achieve that unless you provide the evidence they would need to apply that pressure.

MarlowDonkey · 14 Jul 2026

Haywain said:
They would like to recover what you should have paid but have no pressure over you to achieve that unless you provide the evidence they would need to apply that pressure.

Assuming the short fares were paid for using a credit or debit card, doesn't that give SWR another way of associating a name and address with a ticket account? They would have to jump through whatever hoops the credit or debit card issuers put in the way of disclosing such information. It's only balance of probabilities that the person buying the ticket was the person travelling with invalid tickets.

Haywain · 14 Jul 2026

MarlowDonkey said:
Assuming the short fares were paid for using a credit or debit card, doesn't that give SWR another way of associating a name and address with a ticket account? They would have to jump through whatever hoops the credit or debit card issuers put in the way of disclosing such information. It's only balance of probabilities that the person buying the ticket was the person travelling with invalid tickets.

I don't know how far they might get with that sort of approach. They could go to civil court to try and recover the unpaid fares but that is a bridge that the OP can cross when, and if, they come to it. For now the OP should ignore the communication and ensure that they travel using tickets which are valid for the whole journey being made.

JH1081 · 14 Jul 2026

Tetchytyke said:
Potentially, but probably not.

The important question is whether the season ticket you now hold correctly covers your entire journey. If it does not do so, then you should stop using the ticket, you should arrange for the ticket to be swapped for a ticket which does correctly cover your entire journey, or you should buy additional tickets to correctly cover your journey. You may prefer to do the former so that you don't give them more information but, as they know your home address, they can probably already take an educated guess as to your actual origin station.

There are only two ways they can prove to the criminal standard that you were short-faring: either they catch you in the act, or you admit it (either intentionally or unwittingly). With ticket scans they can probably prove that someone using your account used the ticket but they can't prove anything more than that- they can't prove who it was, nor where they travelled from.

Your details are stored by the retailer and your details can be passed by that retailer to SWR prosecutions team. It is easier if the retailer is also SWR, obviously. You have the right to request deletion of your data but, under GDPR, they do not have to comply if there are good reasons why they shouldn't. Suspecting you of crime would be one such reason.

The short answer is they have your details and you can't do anything about it.

My season ticket covers my complete journey and is completely legitimate so I guess I don’t have to worry about that.
It was only when I was wasn’t working for the complete month that I stupidly short fared.

I guess I just have to gamble that using my current season ticket doesn’t flag up when it gets scanned on as I think requesting a refund and getting a new one would definitely raise suspicions.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2026 ==

gray1404 said:
Is the season ticket a paper ticket or is it on a smart card?

Smart card

Tetchytyke · 14 Jul 2026

MarlowDonkey said:
Assuming the short fares were paid for using a credit or debit card, doesn't that give SWR another way of associating a name and address with a ticket account?

They already know the name and address of the account holder.

What they can't (easily) prove is whether the account holder was the one who was travelling. This is why they struggle to prove something to the criminal standard if they don't catch someone in the act.

JH1081 said:
My season ticket covers my complete journey and is completely legitimate so I guess I don’t have to worry about that.

If your ticket is valid for the full journey you make then just carry on using it. There is no flag which can make things worse for you. You might or might not get pulled for additional ticket checks (I doubt that you will btw) but if your ticket is valid then it doesn't matter.

They already know who you are and where you live. Seeking a refund of a season ticket and buying a new one would just cost you money due to the way refunds are calculated.

JH1081 · 14 Jul 2026

Tetchytyke said:
They already know the name and address of the account holder.

What they can't (easily) prove is whether the account holder was the one who was travelling. This is why they struggle to prove something to the criminal standard if they don't catch someone in the act.

If your ticket is valid for the full journey you make then just carry on using it. There is no flag which can make things worse for you. You might or might not get pulled for additional ticket checks (I doubt that you will btw) but if your ticket is valid then it doesn't matter.

They already know who you are and where you live. Seeking a refund of a season ticket and buying a new one would just cost you money due to the way refunds are calculated.

Will they not be able to see I’m still scanning my (legitimate) ticket through the gates on my account and flag it / stop me from using it if they’re investigating my account ?

I say this as not sure whether to stop using it completely and buy one on another fresh account. Thanks

gembercannelle · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Will they not be able to see I’m still scanning my (legitimate) ticket through the gates on my account and flag it / stop me from using it if they’re investigating my account ?

I say this as not sure whether to stop using it completely and buy one on another fresh account. Thanks

There is no way the TOC can stop someone from using the ticket that has been legitimately bought!

gray1404 · 14 Jul 2026

I would just keep using your season ticket. You have paid for it and it is valid.

Tetchytyke · 14 Jul 2026

JH1081 said:
Will they not be able to see I’m still scanning my (legitimate) ticket through the gates on my account and flag it / stop me from using it if they’re investigating my account ?

No. They might (but probably won't) flag you for extra checks but if your ticket is kosher then it doesn't matter.

AlterEgo · 14 Jul 2026

Much overthinking going on. Use the season ticket if it is legit, don't respond to their email.

JH1081 · 30 Jul 2026

Hi all,

Update here - just received the below following the first Request for contact a couple weeks ago:

Dear X,

It is with regret that we have not yet received a response to our previous enquiry sent on X, as per my email below.

Your cooperation in providing a truthful account within the stipulated timeframe is crucial.

We kindly request your immediate attention to this matter and ask that you respond by X

You may wish to seek independent legal advice regarding fare evasion. Assistance and guidance can be obtained from the Citizens Advice Service, and I have attached a link for your reference: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or require further clarification.

Kind Regards,

Any advice on how to proceed from here would be greatly appreciated!

I guess my main concern is where and what will this will get escalated to now, thanks.

gray1404 · 30 Jul 2026

The advice remains unchanged, do not respond to it and do not engage with them.

This follow-up, or even a couple more, is not unexpected and it's something they do to try to scare people into replying who might have ignored them already.

Tallguy · 1 Aug 2026

I’m no lawyer but continue to ignore these e mails is the way I would go. Stop using the account you have been buying the tickets on and switch to a new ticket provider and if possible use a different credit card for future purchases to completely ‘break the chain.’

if your season ticket covers your complete journey and journey times continue to use it but if it was purchased via the account you used for your episodes of short faring there is a possibility that it could be blocked, forcing you to go to seek staff assistance which would then potentially lead to interaction with revenue protection. To avoid this you could request a refund on this season ticket and then buy a replacement using cash or with a different credit card via a different ticket provider as I mentioned above, thus ‘breaking the chain.’

Each time you get one of these e mails come back here for advice before you do anything. And make sure you never travel without a valid ticket going forward from here.

Tetchytyke · 3 Aug 2026

Tallguy said:
if it was purchased via the account you used for your episodes of short faring there is a possibility that it could be blocked, forcing you to go to seek staff assistance which would then potentially lead to interaction with revenue protection. To avoid this you could request a refund on this season ticket and then buy a replacement using cash or with a different credit card via a different ticket provider as I mentioned above, thus ‘breaking the chain.’

This is just overthinking it.

Because of the way refunds are calculated, putting a season ticket in for a refund will cost the OP quite a bit of money. Season ticket refunds aren't pro-rata.

They might put a flag on the ticket, but they almost certainly won't. But if they do, so long as the ticket is valid and covers the journey being undertaken then it really doesn't matter.

Tallguy · 3 Aug 2026

Tetchytyke said:
This is just overthinking it.

Because of the way refunds are calculated, putting a season ticket in for a refund will cost the OP quite a bit of money. Season ticket refunds aren't pro-rata.

They might put a flag on the ticket, but they almost certainly won't. But if they do, so long as the ticket is valid and covers the journey being undertaken then it really doesn't matter.

I disagree. I don’t believe I am over thinking it. Whilst it will cost the OP some money to get a refund on the existing season ticket, this will completely avoid the risk of detection and as you say a flag Being put on the ticket. My way breaks all links amd that is the message I am trying to deliver. If the OP carries out my suggestion, then without going through the new ticket retailer and going all the way to address comparison, there is no link and there is pretty much no way that the OP’s new ticket can be linked to the previous alleged short faring episodes and is unlikely to be flagged for investigation. Belt and braces….

jumble · 3 Aug 2026

Egg Centric said:
Is the season pass 100% legitimate - i.e. correct for your journey and your circumstances?

If it is then use it but if stopped using it and asked questions then you must give them your details and otherwise say nothing (not even "no comment" - just stare blankly) to any other question. Would you be comfortable doing this?

(I don't know if we've any experience of this sort of thing happening outside of TfL but you have to be aware it's something that they technically are capable of doing)

I am a bit late to the party but I advise Name and address and possibly let them see id but not photograph it only
This will let one comply with Byelaw 17 and should dispel any threats of BTP involvement
Giving an email address or phone number would be stupid as it all helps builds a picture that one would not want to be built

farfromhome · 3 Aug 2026

Tv show on channel 5 feom 9pm has this scenario on it.
Quite informative actually on how they do their work and find out.

island · 12 Aug 2026

jumble said:
I am a bit late to the party but I advise Name and address and possibly let them see id but not photograph it only
This will let one comply with Byelaw 17 and should dispel any threats of BTP involvement
Giving an email address or phone number would be stupid as it all helps builds a picture that one would not want to be built

RPIs do not have an entitlement to be shown ID*, still less to photograph it. They can ask for it all they want but the only things they're legally entitled to are the passenger's name and address and, if they propose to issue a penalty fare in relation to travel on a National Rail service in England, their date of birth. They're also not entitled to require a passenger to show them bank cards, their name on their iCloud account, etc., nor to detain a passenger who has provided their name and address. Nor are they entitled to require a passenger to sign anything.

That being said, refusing to provide same can constitute a failure of the "attitude test" and result in an RPI dealing with a matter more severely than they were otherwise minded to, such as by reporting for prosecution instead of issuing a penalty fare, a new ticket, or words of advice.

*Other than the relevant ID to support a concessionary or season ticket, such as a Railcard

Short faring issue - SWR Request for contact

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