We see land talk about lots of impact on the trains but rarely do we ever see anything with buses. Do they largely escape any potential issues with stock and timetabling? I noticed in Leeds, for example, that a fair number of the electric vehicles had been substituted for their fuel counterparts on the 2/3 and 12/13 yesterday.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Heatwave impact on bus services
- Thread starter Bayum
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Dwarfer1979
Member
With trains one of the big issues is the infrastructure (rails & wires) being damaged by the heat so any effects are widespread and significant. With buses it is much more singular so things are less high profile but the general network is less affected by heat in itself:
1. Overheating. When you get to high temperatures it will show up any weaknesses in the engine cooling system that has gone unnoticed during the cooler parts of the year. Extreme heat just means it is putting greater pressure on even a properly working one (in the same way that the first heavy rain after a prolonged dry period suddenly has multiple buses going down with faulty wipers#).
2. Drivers. As discussions elsewhere have highlighted cabin cooling on buses is not designed to cope with extreme temperatures (as many particularly non-electric don't have aircon) and whilst driver cabs will often have fans & better ventilation it will still be tough on drivers. Also drivers will often spend periods of time outside in the heat waiting for buses or during breaks. I don't know how much of this was heat related but by the end of the week one of our depots had over half a dozen drivers go off sick.
Unlike cold I don't think heat has the same deleterious impact on electric vehicle range (I haven't heard reports of ours struggling for instance but it may depend how close to range you are running them) but there are always choices being made that only make sense when you have inside knowledge.
There were reports of roads melting in some places but that would be more of a headline in itself than a report in how it is affecting buses.
Ballyheigue
Member
I think the danger with buses is people collapsing on them because they're too hot, seen a fair few with ambulances near them lately.
Transdev Harrogate used one of their ADL400Es on the Dalesbus 59 to Skipton yesterday to benefit from its air con despite being of less capacity (54 seats) than the tender specifies. The normal vehicle would be a 2010 ex NCT Scania Omnidekka now the Starbeck depot has no Geminis.
Matching @Dwarfer1979's experience, reliable sources suggest a number of drivers in North Kent were unable to finish their shifts on Friday owing to cab temperatures, with a further knock-on effect to Saturday.
A local driver posted a picture on social media with a manual thermometer showing 47C; another posted a digital thermometer of 42.9C. Without knowing the specifics of assault screens, etc. (certainly the company registering 47C has them fixed closed, or designed without an opening option), it suggests cab temperatures were in the region of 10C higher than the passenger saloon, and perhaps nearer 15 to the ambient outside temperature.
A local driver posted a picture on social media with a manual thermometer showing 47C; another posted a digital thermometer of 42.9C. Without knowing the specifics of assault screens, etc. (certainly the company registering 47C has them fixed closed, or designed without an opening option), it suggests cab temperatures were in the region of 10C higher than the passenger saloon, and perhaps nearer 15 to the ambient outside temperature.
In London the cabs are still sealed following my the Covid years, so there will be a lot less air flowing than there used to be
Elsewhere, maybe they should relax health and safety rules and allow buses to be driven with the doors open, like how they used to do in the 90s
Elsewhere, maybe they should relax health and safety rules and allow buses to be driven with the doors open, like how they used to do in the 90s
markymark2000
On Moderation
When it's hot, would the air con not be working harder to keep the bus cooler as that would normally mean the range decreases? Would drivers perhaps be more defensive than normal too trying to get the trip finished quicker so they can have a break and go to the shop for a drink etc? That's the only things that I can think of which would affect the electrics and mean they coming off runs sooner. Just the range decreasing due to driving styles and increased air con usage.
Despite what Health and Safety rules state I know that there are still vehicles in service with various operators that can be driven with doors open and I even know that some modern buses (I think mainly MMC200s) can be driven with doors open dependant on operator specification.
Trainguy34
Established Member
I found out earlier in the week, much to my displeasure, that Stagecoach South East had cancelled my bus home (and many others) as a result of engines overheating.
Dwarfer1979
Member
Aircon itself doesn't appear to be that power hungry in effect (there is a notice in our depot for drivers that suggests that the traditional heaters fitted to the electric buses use 3 times more power to heat than the aircon unit does) and whilst driving style can impact that will be difficult to pick out from normal weeks (and is encompassed by my caveat of it depending how close to range you are running anyway).
External temperature does have a direct effect on the efficiency of the batteries themselves, it has widely been experienced that range is adversely as external temperatures drop below 5C and as I understand it similar happens with heat but at external temperatures above 40C (it is most noticeably seen above 45C) - the temperatures we saw last week were in the band of reasonableness (optimum temperature is 20-25C) but we were getting close to the point that mitigations may have started to need to be considered similar to how temperatures around freezing do.
Less simply than just Health & Safety rules, it is in fact that all buses are built with a safety interlock that prevents the hand brake releasing with the doors open. When they first started being introduced (around the time of low-floor adoption I think) it was quite common for operators to disconnect the interlock. This has become much less common recently whether because the rules have been tightened or operators are more careful of the legal risks of doing so I'm not sure.
markymark2000
On Moderation
That is somewhat surprising. I thought it would have had a bigger effect. Thank you for the info.
Going back to this initial post. They don’t routinely use electric buses on the 2/3/12/13 in Leeds as these are Hunslet routes and the Electroliners are allocated to Bramley.
Ballyheigue
Member
The thing I've found out in Birmingham is the position of air conditioning outlets are in the wrong place. Many are situated right next to an opening window with the flow facing outwards, wouldn't be so bad if it faced inwards. Windows need opening for hygene reasons, let's face it, not just coughing but sweat in a lot of cases, so you can't lock windows. The sensible option would be to locate the outlet on the ceiling, or at least have them away from any windows that can be opened.
joieman
Member
Openable windows don't seem to be massively essential for buses when they are fitted with air conditioning systems, and even in the UK there are a handful of buses that have few or no opening windows at all (such as Diamond East Midlands' Custom Denning Element 2s).
Give the experience with failing aircon on trains, I beg to differ.
Living in an urban area and a bus route past our front door is that ICE (internal Combustion Engine) buses trully are awefull in hot weather. The noise from the cooling fans and then the smell of diesal is just not accetable these days. Noise pollution really ia a serious under reported scurge on society.
When the Eletric buses go past we don't hear a thing.
When the Eletric buses go past we don't hear a thing.
Last edited:
RJ
Established Member
The heatwave shouldn’t have much of an effect of buses if they are maintained thoroughly.
There are great big hulky air-conditioned buses and coaches operating in hot climates which manage OK. A thermostat which opens at lower temperatures does help - some of mine have had tropical thermostats.
Overheating can be caused by various other mechanical issues which can be avoided.
There are great big hulky air-conditioned buses and coaches operating in hot climates which manage OK. A thermostat which opens at lower temperatures does help - some of mine have had tropical thermostats.
Overheating can be caused by various other mechanical issues which can be avoided.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't know about the buses themselves, but I did see the driver of an Oxford-Bedford X5 bent over in front of his bus throwing up on the hottest day, so clearly there is a staff impact.
joieman
Member
Well, people make buses with AC but no opening windows work somehow in places like Hong Kong and Singapore.
I was in Leeds last Friday, the electric’s were on their usual routes, I noticed that the First Yutong E10’s have air con as no windows were open & on the Kite’s the drivers cab window was closed, air con for the driver appears to have worked on these.
The view in Devon (and some of it is Facebook wibble) is that all three types of EV at Torquay depot have aircon (ADL double and single-deckers and Yutong single deckers), whereas the Volvos at Exeter do not.
Some commentators say AC is fitted to the Volvo's, but it was disabled as it takes too much charge from the batteries, others that it was never fitted to save money. A driver pointed to a small fan in his cab, which is better than nothing in this hot weather, I suppose. Along the coving panels in the saloon there are rows of small openings which appear to be part of an AC system.
I'm trying to understand why Exeter should be treated differently from Torquay, but it's difficult getting information from Stagecoach.
On my one trip on an ADL Enviro100EV from Brixham to Kingswear, the AC was, if anything, too fierce, and it was better on the ADL double-decker stuck in traffic on service 12 Newton Abbot - Paignton!
Last edited by a moderator:
YorkRailFan
Established Member
A Transdev driver told me that when heat has exceeded 30°C, the tarmac on the A19 would melt and stick the tires of the buses. The molten tarmac would then cool and fall of the tires in clumps on the roadside
JKP
Member
tires? I think you mean tyres. Sorry, I just hate seeing Americani spellings spreading across the Atlantic.
Last edited:
SSmith2009
Member
Centrebus' orbital Yutong E10s are lovely with the air-con unless someone opens a window
SalopBuses
Member
A few weeks ago in Telford alot of buses kept breaking down in the heat.
StavBered
Member
Something that I believe should be brought up is the colour of the vehicle itself, obviously darker colours, basically, absorb more heat than lighter ones and it definitely shows in hot conditions, at least where I live.
On one hand, there are bright blue 200MMCs (no air-conditioning however equipped with tinted windows) and for the most part, the driver and passengers can cope with the heat.
And on the other hand, there are black Volvo B7 Eclipse Urbans (with functioning air-conditioning but no tinted window) and said AC had almost no effect whatsoever. On one occasion, during the heatwave period, I boarded one of these black Volvos which very soon decided to break down. The exterior body panels were scorching hot upon making contact with them and I later found out it failed due to overheating. Had that bus been (let's say) white, a whole breakdown may have been prevented
On one hand, there are bright blue 200MMCs (no air-conditioning however equipped with tinted windows) and for the most part, the driver and passengers can cope with the heat.
And on the other hand, there are black Volvo B7 Eclipse Urbans (with functioning air-conditioning but no tinted window) and said AC had almost no effect whatsoever. On one occasion, during the heatwave period, I boarded one of these black Volvos which very soon decided to break down. The exterior body panels were scorching hot upon making contact with them and I later found out it failed due to overheating. Had that bus been (let's say) white, a whole breakdown may have been prevented
joieman
Member
Let me guess, Trentbarton's Ilkeston Flyer and Comet respectively?
StavBered
Member
Exactly those 2 services, however it was easier for me to simply things and not have people wondering what a "comet" bus is.
py_megapixel
Established Member
London and Manchester both specify that the rooves of buses are to be painted white.