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Stagecoach South & South East
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The KentOnline article (https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canter...ice-to-return-to-village-after-uproar-342036/) on the matter says:
quoting the Stagecoach representative as saying
That could well mean a diversion of an existing service, rather than a straight "reinstatement" of the previous service 7 along the full route. I have the relevant item from the Canterbury Joint Transportation Board on my "to listen to" list to get the words from the MD directly.
SeveerYeliab
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I have heard that it will be an all day hourly frequency of peak time only route 603, just running via Broad Oak
I imagine something like this will be the most likely scenario, rather than a full return of the 7, which no doubt would require a lot more funding than a simple diversion in an existing network. There has been no mention in the media of a return of a bus to Hoath which is the other village which was served by the 7.
An issue with journalism is the writing of articles which don’t quite have the full facts.
Two tender losses from 1st August are services 11 Westwood Cross-Canterbury and 36 Herne Bay-QEQM Hospital. No info. yet on the replacement operator but most likely Regent Coaches.
SeveerYeliab
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Service 11 passes to Regent Coaches and service 36 passes to YKS Travel. The Sunday 5 passes to I think YMS. Also Stagecoach lose some school routes in Ashford, passing to R&J and Chalkwell.
Thanks for the info. Must be the first time, certainly in recent years, that YMS have taken on local bus work usually being associated with contract and rail replacement services.
YMS have never run a ‘normal’ public bus service before. Though they have plenty of experience running unregistered bus services (such as park and rides, rail replacement etc).
They have registered 2 services in the past, but this was for Dover cruise shuttles and also a park and ride shuttle for a Dreamland event - they normally operate such services unregistered, but they probably charged fares on these occasions.
Flange Squeal
Established Member
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Stagecoach South’s Aldershot depot will operate a new service from the end of August, numbered 8, which will reconnect Yateley and Farnborough. As a result though, the 3 between Yateley and Aldershot will be reduced in frequency between Yateley and Camberley from the same time, even though the new route doesn’t run via Camberley. The 3 will receive later evening journeys and an increased Sunday frequency.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/100067883...izLtmgJtEc6QDZm4xtQmKFbRwPTR4ptJ8fiLsKwxWpl/?
Not very good for the Yateley passengers - from anecdotal observations on an infrequent basis the section into Camberley is a popular one, especially for the Meadows. An overall reduction from 4 to 2-3 buses an hour (bearing in mind that the 8 isn't totally hourly throughout) is going to make an effect on patronage. Still, at least there's a somewhat decent connection to Farnborough. The service update page on the Stagecoach link also reads like a councillor's achievement post on Facebook.
Withdrawal and reduction in Stagecoach services in Thanet. Getting worse for anything other than The Loop although a direct Ramsgate Canterbury service is welcome
theisleofthanetnews.com
County Councillor’s anger as number of Stagecoach Thanet routes to be reduced or withdrawn
A Thanet and county councillor has slammed Stagecoach after discovering the bus operator will be reducing and withdrawing a number of isle services from September 20. Cllr Rob Yates, who represents…
theisleofthanetnews.com
Gareth1990
Member
This nonsense about not having power over the bus companies, you do, just refuse to give Stagecoach the opportunity to operate services contracted by the council if they continue to cut servicesWithdrawal and reduction in Stagecoach services in Thanet. Getting worse for anything other than The Loop although a direct Ramsgate Canterbury service is welcome
County Councillor’s anger as number of Stagecoach Thanet routes to be reduced or withdrawn
A Thanet and county councillor has slammed Stagecoach after discovering the bus operator will be reducing and withdrawing a number of isle services from September 20. Cllr Rob Yates, who represents…
This has been discussed elsewhere (you may even have been involved) - procurement regulations do not allow that to be the case.
In any case, in a recent round of KCC tendering, Stagecoach were the only bidder for some of the services, including some that would be regarded as important inter-urban links. So if they didn't award them to Stagecoach, you'd have... no bus. As an example, in the September 2023 tendering round, Southdown PSV (as was) was the only bidder for the 236 and 594/595 services in Oxted. If you replace "Stagecoach" with "Southdown" in your quoted sentence above, would you be happy to lose those services because the operator had withdrawn a route in Crawley?
It's slightly too far out of my direct area to know regular loadings, but some of these services have been on their last legs for a while, and reprieved, and reprieved, and reprieved. As a now retired senior bus manager from another area said in a presentation a few months ago "You've heard of build it and they will come? Well eventually you run out of people who'll come, and if your costs aren't covered, you can't continue".
Gareth1990
Member
Well if councils can’t exclude operators from bidding on contracted services, they have the ultimate weapon now, they can franchise services. Tell Stagecoach either stop mucking about or we’ll franchise the network in the East Kent area…
Is the route commercial? If so, if the Council believe there is a need for the service, then they can support it financially by putting it out to tender. If there are no tenderers, they could opt to run it themselves since they now have the powers to do so. Admittedly, it is a bit of a hassle, but not impossible.
paulprentice
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Franchising is on the cards for East Kent regardless….
Man of Kent
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What evidence do you have for that please?
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
All of the models for franchising adopted so far result in significantly higher costs for the public sector. It is highly unlikely that there is sufficient funding to introduce this in most shire areas.
Anyway, Kent County is on its way out, and will be replaced by four unitary authorities in 2028.
paulprentice
Member
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There is no public policy statement to that effect, but it is something that campaign groups are pushing for, and once unitary and eventually mayoral authorities are established I have a hunch that this will be the direction of travel. It will depend on the local politics of the next few years.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Hmmm… I have a hunch it won’t.
Class450/4DES
Member
Unlike over in Hampshire in Stagecoach South territory, which the council have declined on bus franchises. Our bus routes are still getting withdrawn. So unlike you lot in Kent, we will still have to deal with many transit deserts for the foreseeable future.
izvor
Member
It looks like there will be a combined mayoral authority to cover strategic issues like transport (as in Surrey).
Didn't Stagecoach recently receive BSIP funding to restore the (Thanet) Loop to 7.5bph? And at the very same time halve the frequencies to Garlinge and other estates? They now have a virtual monopoly on bus services in East Kent, and seem to be behaving accordingly. As @duncombec states above, there's very few small operators left to bid for tenders. And while other companies are slowly rebuilding their commercial networks post-Covid, Stagecoach still seem set on steady decline, happy in the knowledge that there's no one left to challenge them. Brian Souter would be very happy.
That said, the "cuts" don't seem as drastic as the headlines suggest, looking at the rest of the text, but of course the detail is to follow.
Much of rural Kent is now a bus desert (like Hampshire) due to years of KCC parsimony and I can't see that changing, especially with the forthcoming local government mayhem. If you live in a small village or estate being abandoned, it's likely to be curtains for your bus service. I hope I'm wrong.
Man of Kent
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Neither Kent nor Surrey currently have a combined authority in sight. However, more problematically for Stagecoach, the new Sussex and Brighton Strategic Authority (its preferred title) has announced that it has a received a Department for Transport grant for a pre-franchising assessment.
/Bus Franchising Appraisal Funding
£564,000 Government funding to help identify possible improvements to bus services across Sussex & Brighton
Mark L
Member
A combined authority is very much on the agenda for Surrey one the two new unitary authorities are up and running. See https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/community/news/categories/your-council/government-lgr-confirmation and page 16 of this document https://www.surreylgrhub.gov.uk/downloads/file/10/shaping-surrey-s-future-final-planNeither Kent nor Surrey currently have a combined authority in sight. However, more problematically for Stagecoach, the new Sussex and Brighton Strategic Authority (its preferred title) has announced that it has a received a Department for Transport grant for a pre-franchising assessment.
/Bus Franchising Appraisal Funding
£564,000 Government funding to help identify possible improvements to bus services across Sussex & Brightonwww.sussexandbrighton-cca.gov.uk
Man of Kent
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However, in Surrey the new councils take over on 1 April 2027, whereas Kent and Sussex are not due to change for another year. The Government has not (yet) passed an order to create a Surrey Combined Authority, and with just 8 months to go before the new arrangements, it looks somewhat unlikely that there will be one in place on vesting date. Indeed, the only reference in the second document to a combined authority is for the Fire & Rescue Service.
Both Stagecoach South and South East will be facing some challenging times as all this settles down, and the new authorities - whichever end up holding the transport powers - determine their new policies towards buses.
Mark L
Member
As a Surrey resident who actively supported the push for three unitaries I am very familiar with the timetable.
The Surrey MCA will not be in place next April but, as I said, it is very much part of the plan. One of the factors in the decision to create two or more unitaries as opposed to one was to facilitate the establishment of such a body. You can’t have a combined authority sitting over a single council - there is nothing to combine.
In addition to mention of policing and fire the second document says, inter alia, that initially a Strategic Authority for Surrey would bring enhanced powers and responsibilities for local transport, infrastructure, housing, planning, skills, economic growth and climate change.
Given that it is core to the current government’s devolution agenda for England I have no doubt that the door to this is already ajar. The order to establish such a body is secondary legislation so is, to all practical intents, little more than a formality.
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Read out from a meeting Cllr Rob Yates had with KCC and Stagecoach re proposed cuts to bus services serving Thanet. Source Rob Yates FB account
Just had a meeting with KCC Transport officers, and the MD + Commercial Manager of Stagecoach SE.
The update is:
1) KCC are looking to find an alternative service provider for the number 9 bus given the Stagecoach service cuts.
2) KCC and Stagecoach are working in partnership to try keep the number 32 bus running. (KCC may have to part fund this service).
3) Unfortunately there doesn’t seem any appetite from KCC or Stagecoach to maintain the current service provision of the 34.
4) The new 44 route will now go from Ramsgate to Canterbury (WWX-> Ramsgate -> Sandwich -> Canterbury and vice versa). Map to be issued shortly.
5) The rumours that the loop service may be cut in the future are not true according to Joel Mitchell.
They hope that this will all be sorted and agreed and announced by the end of August.
I have also written to TDC Planning asking for the local district bus forum to be reinstatement so district councillors can have regular meetings with Stagecoach.
My Quote:
“I know from speaking to Cllr George Kup representing Minnis Bay, Cllr Jenny Matterface representing Broadstairs, and being inundated with messages from distressed residents just how much these changes would impact our communities way of life. So I am glad that KCC is looking at finding solutions to keep the number 9 and number 32 service alive, and hope these solutions, if found, will be announced to the public as soon as possible. Today’s meeting was constructive.
"In the long term, I want Thanet to have free buses like Dunkerque (just across the channel) where 200,000 residents get to ride the bus for free. If it happens in France, it can happen here."
Just had a meeting with KCC Transport officers, and the MD + Commercial Manager of Stagecoach SE.
The update is:
1) KCC are looking to find an alternative service provider for the number 9 bus given the Stagecoach service cuts.
2) KCC and Stagecoach are working in partnership to try keep the number 32 bus running. (KCC may have to part fund this service).
3) Unfortunately there doesn’t seem any appetite from KCC or Stagecoach to maintain the current service provision of the 34.
4) The new 44 route will now go from Ramsgate to Canterbury (WWX-> Ramsgate -> Sandwich -> Canterbury and vice versa). Map to be issued shortly.
5) The rumours that the loop service may be cut in the future are not true according to Joel Mitchell.
They hope that this will all be sorted and agreed and announced by the end of August.
I have also written to TDC Planning asking for the local district bus forum to be reinstatement so district councillors can have regular meetings with Stagecoach.
My Quote:
“I know from speaking to Cllr George Kup representing Minnis Bay, Cllr Jenny Matterface representing Broadstairs, and being inundated with messages from distressed residents just how much these changes would impact our communities way of life. So I am glad that KCC is looking at finding solutions to keep the number 9 and number 32 service alive, and hope these solutions, if found, will be announced to the public as soon as possible. Today’s meeting was constructive.
"In the long term, I want Thanet to have free buses like Dunkerque (just across the channel) where 200,000 residents get to ride the bus for free. If it happens in France, it can happen here."
izvor
Member
The 34 has a 20-minute stand at Margate for most of the day. The 32 halved the frequency to Garlinge (15>30 mins) in June 2024, and to Minnis Bay (30>60 mins) plus forcing the latter's passengers to suffer the detour round Garlinge. These and other features of the 2024 cuts make me think these routes were designed to fail.
telstarbox
Established Member
From looking at the map Thanet looks tricky to serve as it's polycentric between Margate, Broadstairs, Ramsgate and Westwood. Plus there is already a train through to Canterbury. What are the main destinations for bus passengers?
aswilliamsuk
Member
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- 10 Jul 2016
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QEQH (Margate Hospital), Westwood Cross Shopping Centre, plus Margate, Ramsgate and Broadstairs.
Having had occasion to use the Loop recently, it is exceptionally busy around the route as it smartly links everywhere it needs to.
As you note, Ramsgate-Canterbury has a frequent train service which is likely the reason a bus struggles - whereas there is no such link between Margate and Canterbury, hence why the 8/8X is four per hour.
Trainguy34
Established Member
Sorry for the pedantry, but 1 of the two trains per hour continues to Margate via Ramsgate (the HS Service), although it is often turned early at Ramsgate during disruption and can be quite busy.