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Is this Merseyrail Penalty Fare sign accurate?
- Thread starter Gareth1990
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methecooldude
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Yes, Merseyrail, like TfL, do not accept eTickets, any tickets purchased for or with travel on the MerseyRail network should be a collection code.
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The sign doesn’t comply with the wording specified as required in the relevant statutory instruments at all.
The sign badly refers to failing to print tickets fulfilled to tickets on departure (e.g. here’s a collection reference, print at the station).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
They do accept eTickets where the ticket has validity on their network. By design, they try to avoid this. There are some flows where you can legitimately hold an eTicket on a MerseyRail service. If the ticket is valid, it is valid regardless of the medium it is presented in.
The sign badly refers to failing to print tickets fulfilled to tickets on departure (e.g. here’s a collection reference, print at the station).
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
They do accept eTickets where the ticket has validity on their network. By design, they try to avoid this. There are some flows where you can legitimately hold an eTicket on a MerseyRail service. If the ticket is valid, it is valid regardless of the medium it is presented in.
methecooldude
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Fair enough, happily corrected
It says that about tickets purchased online must be printed, not that eTickets must be printed.
For most journeys that are likely to involve Merseyrail, eTicket fulfilment has been vetoed by Merseyrail and so you will instead receive a Ticket on Departure (ToD) collection reference. This ToD reference is not valid for travel in its own right; you need to collect and thus print your ticket(s) before travel.
There are however several scenarios where you could have an eTicket that is valid on Merseyrail routes. For example walk-up tickets to Liverpool Stations from the south or east will generally be valid on Merseyrail between South Parkway and Liverpool Stations. It's far from the quickest route and most people would just stay on whichever train they took to South Parkway, but it could be useful in disruption or if you want to break your journey at an intermediate station.
In such cases, eTickets are valid in whichever format they have been issued and there is certainly no requirement to print them. Merseyrail could not impose such a requirement as it is not in the NRCoT, and as far as I'm aware they don't purport to do so in practice
The sign is somewhat confusing and incorrect in that sense, however for the vast majority of people it will be accurate, so I can kind of see where they're coming from by including that wording. It's all too common for people to buy a ticket, assume that it will be an eTicket (even though they were told otherwise when buying it) and then realise they need to print it when it comes time to show it at the barriers at the end of their journey...
They’re not saying that.
What they mean is that if your ticket requires collection (i.e. ToD) then you must collect it (i.e. print it) before departure.
Merseyrail generally do not have e-tickets enabled for journeys wholly on their network, so someone purchasing online has to collect it from a ticket machine before travel.
If someone has an e-ticket that is valid on Merseyrail then the barcode can be displayed on a phone, it doesn’t have to be printed.
py_megapixel
Established Member
How so? We can see from the photo that it contains the specified wording "Please buy a ticket..." and "A penalty fare is...". We can't see the word "WARNING", but the regulation specifies that "WARNING" must be at the top of the sign, which is not in the photo.
I suppose one could argue that it doesn't adequately contain "wording which indicates where information about the circumstances in which a person may be charged a penalty fare in relation to travel by, presence on or leaving a train is published or may be obtained", though
It also says a PF can be issued for travelling at peak times with an off-peak ticket, when NRCoT Condition 9.5 only permits an Excess Fare to be issued in such circumstances.
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Actually, I bow down to MerseyRail. In my experience, seemingly the only TOC to actually use the specified wording.
I've just used the forum ticket site to check on the availability of tickets (off-peak day returns) from Lancaster to Lime St via Ormskirk, so forcing a change onto Merseyrail.
The result page clearly says "This fare is e-ticketable" thus suggesting there's no need to print it
However that sign clearly says "A penalty fare may be issued if you............Do not print a ticket purchased through an online third-party retailer (e.g. Trainline) before traveling"
In my example it's clearly being purchased as a valid e-ticket from an online third-party retailer, yet are we to assume that Merseyrail ignore that and still want a printed copy?
The result page clearly says "This fare is e-ticketable" thus suggesting there's no need to print it
However that sign clearly says "A penalty fare may be issued if you............Do not print a ticket purchased through an online third-party retailer (e.g. Trainline) before traveling"
In my example it's clearly being purchased as a valid e-ticket from an online third-party retailer, yet are we to assume that Merseyrail ignore that and still want a printed copy?
I think it's just badly worded, let's say you didn't print it off and couldn't present it, otherwise it would just be a case of scanning the image off a phone or whatever.
See my comment above - the sign is referring to Ticket on Departure bookings where your booking reference is not a valid ticket and you must print your tickets before travel.
eTickets are fine in whichever format you receive them, if geographically valid on Merseyrail.
Agreed.
I believe that the issue primarily relates to tickets from one Merseyrail station to another which needed to be paper and shouldn't be able to be purchased as an eticket (but some of the many 3rd party ticket sellers seemed to have screwed up).
If you are at all worried about having a robust loud conversation with Merseyrail staff then you could always pick up the ticket at your place of origin.
This ambiguous language about printing online tickets is common across all Merseyrail communications. It does a great job of pushing people to buy at the ticket offices instead, by perpetuating myths like "TrainLine tickets aren't valid on Merseyrail"
JBuchananGB
Established Member
Just scoping out a trip from Southport to Birmingham International for 10 August. An Off-Peak Single is e-ticketable and costs £33.10.
It would be valid on the itinerary departing SOP at 12.06, changing at Sandhills, Liverpool SP, and Birmingham New St, and is offered for that itinerary on the forum's ticketing site if ticket splits are turned off.
However the site offers an Advance Single for £13.30, which can only be fulfilled as a paper ticket. I'm not sure whether I value the convenience of the e-Ticket at the extra £20.
It would be valid on the itinerary departing SOP at 12.06, changing at Sandhills, Liverpool SP, and Birmingham New St, and is offered for that itinerary on the forum's ticketing site if ticket splits are turned off.
However the site offers an Advance Single for £13.30, which can only be fulfilled as a paper ticket. I'm not sure whether I value the convenience of the e-Ticket at the extra £20.
Southport has both a ticket machine and ticket office to pick up TOD paper tickets.
It does because I bought tickets got a future Southport to Hinckley return through trainsplit and picked up the paper tickets yesterday at Southport station
I think better wording would have been something like "A penalty fare may be issued if... You present a collection code for a ticket that requires printing before departure - such as those issued by online retailers"
For the record I've never had a problem presenting a barcoded e-ticket on Merseyrail where is valid for use. The staff don't seem to like them, but in my experience they know what they are and they know they are valid for travel.
For the record I've never had a problem presenting a barcoded e-ticket on Merseyrail where is valid for use. The staff don't seem to like them, but in my experience they know what they are and they know they are valid for travel.