Old London to Paris Timetable before Eurostar

TravelCrazy · 24 Jul 2026

Hi everyone. I'm doing some research into the London to Paris rail route and want to compare today's journey with how it was possible before Eurostar services began. Does anyone have the timetable of the route from 1994 before Eurostars started which shows the ferry connection at Dover Marine and Calais Maritime? Failing that, I'd happily take the times from any year prior to 1994 (although the closer to 1994, the better!)

Of course I could buy a copy of an old timetable booklet, but this is the only piece of info I require so I hope the community can help me.

Thanks!

RailUK Forums

Nigel · 24 Jul 2026

Here is the relevant page from the May 1992 edition of the Thomas Cook timetable. (I hope that this is readable, if not, I could try photographing it in two halves.)

StephenHunter · 24 Jul 2026

Timetable World would be the place to go; they have many historical timetables covering this route.

The Night Ferry is well worth reading about too.

TravelCrazy · 24 Jul 2026

Nigel said:
Here is the relevant page from the May 1992 edition of the Thomas Cook timetable. (I hope that this is readable, if not, I could try photographing it in two halves.)

You are amazing! Thank you so much, and a massive extra thanks for the quick reply

topydre · 30 Jul 2026

And that's why you need a tunnel... Down to about a third of the previous time

55002 · 30 Jul 2026

Nigel said:
Here is the relevant page from the May 1992 edition of the Thomas Cook timetable. (I hope that this is readable, if not, I could try photographing it in two halves.)

I remember going with mates on that Newhaven to Dieppe the day of the Purley rail crash, I think. We all thought be sound, get there middle of night bound to be bar open loads to do. Absolutely nothing open, ended up 5 of us sleeping in shop doorway. Not our finest hour,!!

Thames99 · 2 Aug 2026

I think that going via Newhaven and Dieppe was the fastest route around 1900 as it is nearest to a straight line from London to Paris. The boats used to make the crossing far faster than they do today and you could get straight off the boat in Dieppe onto a boat train there.

This site

The Newhaven - Dieppe service at the turn of the century

Ships of the LBSCR & Chemins de Fer de L'Ouest

www.ournewhaven.org.uk

has lots of photos of these boats.

Here is a railway poster from that site -Route la plus courte et la plus economique (the shortest and most economical route)

Gloster · 2 Aug 2026

In 1895 the 10.00 from Victoria via Dieppe got you to St Lazare at 18.55 and the 20.50 at 08.00. The return times were 10.00 and 21.00 arriving at 19.00 and 07.50.

From Victoria via the Chatham and Dover it was 09.00, 11.00 and 20.15 for 16.45, 19.00 and 05.38. Return 09.00, 11.50 and 21.00 for 16.50, 19.30 and 05.55. The South Eastern offered the same via Dover with only a few minutes difference in London arrivals.

Via Folkestone the South Eastern just offered 10.00, arriving Nord at 17.40; 10.30 for 18.10 on the return.

E.& O.E.

Ploughman · 3 Aug 2026

Around July 1971 could be 1972. I was on an exchange holiday with a boy from Versailles.
Wondering what train I would have caught from Liverpool to be at Dover for 15.00 to catch the train to Paris for a 23.00 arrival at Gare de Nord?
I recall waiting in the sidings at Folkstone for an hour or two before we moved on to Dover. Strike action delayed our train and caused the move to Dover.
With our late arrival into Paris there then ensued a mad taxi run from Paris to Versailles.

I think I was 14 at the time travelling solo. No phones or anything just hope you had the right contact info and whether people would wait around in delays..

frodshamfella · 3 Aug 2026

There used to be a timetable from London Charing X to Paris Nord by Hoverspeed. They also offered a coach connection too from memory .

zwk500 · 3 Aug 2026

Thames99 said:
I think that going via Newhaven and Dieppe was the fastest route around 1900 as it is nearest to a straight line from London to Paris. The boats used to make the crossing far faster than they do today and you could get straight off the boat in Dieppe onto a boat train there.

The times in that Thomas Cook timetable are roughly comparable with today's timings - 4hrs crossing, +/-1hr for the time zone. How quickly did the boats in 1900 make the crossing?

Sir Felix Pole · 3 Aug 2026

frodshamfella said:
There used to be a timetable from London Charing X to Paris Nord by Hoverspeed. They also offered a coach connection too from memory .

Yes, bus from Dover Priory to the Hoverport and direct turbo train from Boulogne-Aéroglisseurs to Paris Nord. There were also hovercraft services to Calais with coach connections to Calais Ville and Lille. A more exotic route was the 'Silver Arrow' ; train Victoria to Gatwick, plane to Le Toquet and turbo train to Paris Nord. At Le Toquet the train crossed the runway!

Thames99 · 3 Aug 2026

zwk500 said:
The times in that Thomas Cook timetable are roughly comparable with today's timings - 4hrs crossing, +/-1hr for the time zone. How quickly did the boats in 1900 make the crossing?

I remember seeing a facsimile of a postcard from that sort or time which quoted a crossing time which was far quicker than the ferry I had travelled on. I'll have a search for it on the web

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2026 ==

I can't find the postcard I was looking for but did find this page from the Newhaven Historical Society

A Record-Breaking Channel Crossing from Newhaven to Dieppe - Newhaven Historical Society & Museum

Built by William Denny & Brothers of Dumbarton, the Paris IV was launched on 12th April 1913. The naming ceremony was performed by the Countess of Bessborough, wife of the chairman of the ‘London, Brighton and South Coast Railway’ for whom the ship was built, at a cost of £81,300. The...

newhavenhistoricalsociety.org.uk

It mentions a record breaking crossing in July 1913 with the 'Paris' making the journey in 2h 26 or 2h35. Obviously a one off effort to set a record, but it does show that it could be done faster than the current schedule. I imagine that this was at the height of the competition with other London-Paris routes.

Gloster · 3 Aug 2026

In 1895 both the South Eastern (both routes) and the Chatham via Dover advertise their service as the Shortest Sea Passage; the South Eastern quotes 80 minutes for the crossing. The Brighton claims the route via Newhaven is ‘The Shortest & Cheapest Route’, but doesn’t give times for the sea crossing.

WesternLancer · 3 Aug 2026

Ploughman said:
Around July 1971 could be 1972. I was on an exchange holiday with a boy from Versailles.
Wondering what train I would have caught from Liverpool to be at Dover for 15.00 to catch the train to Paris for a 23.00 arrival at Gare de Nord?
I recall waiting in the sidings at Folkstone for an hour or two before we moved on to Dover. Strike action delayed our train and caused the move to Dover.
With our late arrival into Paris there then ensued a mad taxi run from Paris to Versailles.

I think I was 14 at the time travelling solo. No phones or anything just hope you had the right contact info and whether people would wait around in delays..

any other recollections from the journey - eg did you go Liverpool Lime Street to Euston then cross London to Victoria, thence to Dover? Or some other route Liverpool to Dover?
Did you go via Calais?

I have a 1971 Thomas Cook timetable book that should detail it.
But
The closest I can see does not match those sorts of times - but maybe I am not deciphering clearly so others might correct me

Train departs London Victoria: 15.30
Train arrives Folkestone: 16:50
Ship departs Folkestone (not Dover - but I note your point about a strike related diversion): 17.25

Departs Calais Maritime 19.23
Paris Nord arrival at 22.27

so for that you'd probably want a Liverpool to Euston train that arrived into Euston about 14.30

But given what you say about strikes and a prolonged wait at Folkston I assume your intended schedule was much earlier?

Ploughman · 3 Aug 2026

We were in the sidings above Folkstone about 14-00 to 16.00 very warm in the train.
I travelled ex Liverpool to Euston.
Don't recall any other detail.

WesternLancer · 3 Aug 2026

Ploughman said:
We were in the sidings above Folkstone about 14-00 to 16.00 very warm in the train.
I travelled ex Liverpool to Euston.
Don't recall any other detail.

so you may have left London (Victoria?) about 12.30 maybe

You may have got 08.30 train from Liverpool Lime Street, arrived Euston 11.16

But the scheduled departures of trains for onwards ships from London Victoria were at 11.30am (or earlier) or 15.30

so if you had been aiming for the 11.30 from Victoria then you would need to have left Liverpool on the train before the 08.30 departure (which I think would be the 07.55 arr Euston 10.31 - but this is the Liverpool Pullman so a supplement payable. Or the 07.22 from Lime street arrive Euston 10.48)

Other trains from Charing Cross to Folkestone and Dover but I would assume they did not go to Folkestone Harbour or Dover Marine for the boats, just the town stations.

Davester50 · 3 Aug 2026

Sir Felix Pole said:
Yes, bus from Dover Priory to the Hoverport and direct turbo train from Boulogne-Aéroglisseurs to Paris Nord. There were also hovercraft services to Calais with coach connections to Calais Ville and Lille. A more exotic route was the 'Silver Arrow' ; train Victoria to Gatwick, plane to Le Toquet and turbo train to Paris Nord. At Le Toquet the train crossed the runway!

Indeed there was!

StephenHunter · 3 Aug 2026

zwk500 said:
The times in that Thomas Cook timetable are roughly comparable with today's timings - 4hrs crossing, +/-1hr for the time zone. How quickly did the boats in 1900 make the crossing?

In 1900, France wasn't an hour ahead of the UK.

Time in France

Before 1891, each town and city in Metropolitan France had its own time based on local solar time. In 1891, to avoid complications with railway timetables, time was unified in Metropolitan France and based on the solar time at the Paris Observatory — the Paris meridian being approximately 2°20′ east of the Greenwich meridian, Paris mean solar time was 9 minutes 21 seconds ahead of Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). In detail, the railway companies used a unified time which lagged behind Paris solar time by 5 minutes, for the benefit of non-punctual travellers.[5] In 1911, Metropolitan France adopted GMT+0 as its official time, and used it until 1940 (with GMT+1 used during the summers from 1916 to 1940).

In the early 1970s, they didn't use summer time at all there. Or in most of Europe.

LickeyIncliner · 3 Aug 2026

Sir Felix Pole said:
Yes, bus from Dover Priory to the Hoverport and direct turbo train from Boulogne-Aéroglisseurs to Paris Nord. There were also hovercraft services to Calais with coach connections to Calais Ville and Lille. A more exotic route was the 'Silver Arrow' ; train Victoria to Gatwick, plane to Le Toquet and turbo train to Paris Nord. At Le Toquet the train crossed the runway!

See also https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-runways-or-taxiways-that-cross-railways.285748/

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2026 ==

Davester50 said:
Indeed there was!

It's not @Davester50's fault but the video goes off-topic at the end - the plane shown from 0:48 seems to be one of the Aviation Traders' DC-4 conversions which operated a car-carrying air service from (I think) Lydd - so nothing to do with the Fleche d'Argent !

zwk500 · 4 Aug 2026

StephenHunter said:
In 1900, France wasn't an hour ahead of the UK.

Interesting, but not specifically relevent as I asked about the time taken to cross (4hrs today), not what the timetable said.

Harlequinuk · 4 Aug 2026

If i got the 1O66 in June 1986, Liverpool Lime Street (07.49) to Dover Western Docks (12.30) direct, which ferry could i have got a late lunch in Paris and be on the 17.30 return to Liverpool for a home arrival ay 22.32 (1M13)?

Gloster · 4 Aug 2026

Harlequinuk said:
If i got the 1O66 in June 1986, Liverpool Lime Street (07.49) to Dover Western Docks (12.30) direct, which ferry could i have got a late lunch in Paris and be on the 17.30 return to Liverpool for a home arrival ay 22.32 (1M13)?

Not a chance. Working from the 1987 timetable the earliest ferry you could have got, even with a transfer to Eastern Docks, would be the 15.00, getting you into Calais at 17.30 (local time). There probably would be no point making your way to Calais (Ville) except on Sunday (18.46 departure reaches Paris Nord at 22.21), so you would best wait for the 19.32 from Maritime, which reaches Nord at 22.28.

I think that you may have drastically underestimated just how long crossing the channel in pre-Eurostar days took. And the journeys between the ports and capitals, plus customs, etc., added to the time taken.

WesternLancer · 4 Aug 2026

Gloster said:
Not a chance. Working from the 1987 timetable the earliest ferry you could have got, even with a transfer to Eastern Docks, would be the 15.00, getting you into Calais at 17.30 (local time). There probably would be no point making your way to Calais (Ville) except on Sunday (18.46 departure reaches Paris Nord at 22.21), so you would best wait for the 19.32 from Maritime, which reaches Nord at 22.28.

I think that you may have drastically underestimated just how long crossing the channel in pre-Eurostar days took. And the journeys between the ports and capitals, plus customs, etc., added to the time taken.

Helpful to read

in 1987 what was the fastest london - UK port - ferry - French port - Paris time?

was there anything faster than a ferry using trains plus hovercraft or jet foil by then? weather permitting....

Gloster · 4 Aug 2026

WesternLancer said:
Helpful to read

in 1987 what was the fastest london - UK port - ferry - French port - Paris time?

was there anything faster than a ferry using trains plus hovercraft or jet foil by then? weather permitting....

By ferry via Eastern Docks and Calais it appears to be 6h.58m. during the month the clocks coincided with the 15.30 from Victoria. During the same period the 09.00 from Victoria took 5h.18m. via the Hovercraft and Boulogne. I don’t think that I have confused the hours, it is just one of those timetabling quirks; the French side seems to be the one that stayed fixed, probably wisely what with connections across Europe, and the British side the one that had to adjust. (Nowadays this would have the Hate Mail going up in flames.) The usual times are up to twenty minutes or so longer.

Anything faster: well they did use a Harrier once.

WesternLancer · 4 Aug 2026

LickeyIncliner said:
It's not @Davester50's fault but the video goes off-topic at the end - the plane shown from 0:48 seems to be one of the Aviation Traders' DC-4 conversions which operated a car-carrying air service from (I think) Lydd - so nothing to do with the Fleche d'Argent !

Good spot - classic case of film maker thinking - 'we need a pic of the plane taking off going back to London. But it's not going until tomorrow and we've gone home then, but another plane is leaving Le Touquet in an hour or so - we'd better make do with filming that...'

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Aug 2026 ==

Gloster said:
By ferry via Eastern Docks and Calais it appears to be 6h.58m. during the month the clocks coincided with the 15.30 from Victoria. During the same period the 09.00 from Victoria took 5h.18m. via the Hovercraft and Boulogne. I don’t think that I have confused the hours, it is just one of those timetabling quirks; the French side seems to be the one that stayed fixed, probably wisely what with connections across Europe, and the British side the one that had to adjust. (Nowadays this would have the Hate Mail going up in flames.) The usual times are up to twenty minutes or so longer.

Anything faster: well they did use a Harrier once.

Thanks - that's interesting and helpful to read.

Did Dover Marine station serve Eastern Docks?

I forget the detail - as a family we mostly used Newhaven to Dieppe as it was nearer home on the UK side. Only used Dover Marine on a handful of occasions IIRC

Gloster · 4 Aug 2026

WesternLancer said:
Did Dover Marine station serve Eastern Docks?

I forget the detail - as a family we mostly used Newhaven to Dieppe as it was nearer home on the UK side. Only used Dover Marine on a handful of occasions IIRC

Dover Marine was the name of the terminus from 1914 to 1979, when it became Dover Western Docks. Latterly it only served the few sailings from Western Docks (seemingly only one a day in 1987) and as a convenient terminus for trains. The Eastern Docks were reached by a bus (07.30-18.30 only) from Dover Priory station, but there had been a goods line as far as the Eastern Arm of the Eastern Docks until the end of 1964.

WesternLancer · 4 Aug 2026

Gloster said:
Dover Marine was the name of the terminus from 1914 to 1979, when it became Dover Western Docks. Latterly it only served the few sailings from Western Docks (seemingly only one a day in 1987) and as a convenient terminus for trains. The Eastern Docks were reached by a bus (07.30-18.30 only) from Dover Priory station, but there had been a goods line as far as the Eastern Arm of the Eastern Docks until the end of 1964.

Thanks - helpful clarifications

MartinC · 4 Aug 2026

Sir Felix Pole said:
Yes, bus from Dover Priory to the Hoverport and direct turbo train from Boulogne-Aéroglisseurs to Paris Nord. There were also hovercraft services to Calais with coach connections to Calais Ville and Lille. A more exotic route was the 'Silver Arrow' ; train Victoria to Gatwick, plane to Le Toquet and turbo train to Paris Nord. At Le Toquet the train crossed the runway!

For the first year or so the Silver Arrow used Manston, reached by Victoria to Margate (or it might have been Ramsgate, aged memory ) and coach to Manston. Silver City, who operated the Silver Arrow, were based in Manston, but later moved operations to Gatwick because of the better connection and the complications of a reserved coach on the Kent Coast train. I did the original route in 1958. The plane was a Tudor Freightmaster in "trooping " format with backward facing seats, no pressurisation with free sweets !

WesternLancer · 4 Aug 2026

MartinC said:
For the first year or so the Silver Arrow used Manston, reached by Victoria to Margate (or it might have been Ramsgate, aged memory ) and coach to Manston. Silver City, who operated the Silver Arrow, were based in Manston, but later moved operations to Gatwick because of the better connection and the complications of a reserved coach on the Kent Coast train. I did the original route in 1958. The plane was a Tudor Freightmaster in "trooping " format with backward facing seats, no pressurisation with free sweets !

Brilliant to read that personal recollection!

Old London to Paris Timetable before Eurostar

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