What are the safety devices in question?
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Blackpool Heritage Tram Operations Suspended
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Topmandog1
Member
seems the same statement is being said although it looks like the previously suggested summer service is not happening and will likely be the illuminations tour with 717 and hms
Gazete Link
This Facebook page seems to think it means no summer service at all - link
The Flexity fleet has speed limiters and obstacle detection, I would guess that only the former is required for the heritage fleet
Weren't deadman's switches another requirement?
That would appear once again to be at odds with the original statement, attributed to an ORR spokesman, when heritage ops were first curtailed, which seemed to be very much distancing the organisation from the suggestion that it was they who had brought about the suspension of operations. As reported by British Trams Online, and reproduced elsewhere:
“ A spokesperson is quoted as saying: “ORR has not been involved in Blackpool Transport’s decision. Heritage tramways are required to assess the risks relating to collision between heritage trams and members of the public and implement any reasonably practicable controls identified. This will include light-of-sight operation. We have not required them to install obstacle detection or overspeed technology.” “
Link to the British Trams Online article here:
Nevertheless, happily it does sound as though a portable solution has been found which is suitable for ongoing heritage operations, hopefully this might mean that other cars can still be permitted to access the system as well.
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bluegoblin7
Established Member
There is, once again, seemingly confusion in what the ORR expects and what the ORR mandates - and indeed their overall role.
Unlike the old HMRI set up, there is generally no requirement for the ORR to be directly involved in the day to day minutiae of systems, or indeed signing off on equipment. This is all done by the relevant operator, or their independent contractor, as part of their 'Business As Usual' safety processes, as mandated by their Safety Management System which itself is a requirement under the Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) Regulations 2006 (ROGS). The ORR will usually only get involved if deficiencies are identified, either through routine or unannounced inspections or following a tip-off - this is where the Improvement Notice has come about.
Both statements can therefore be true at the same time: the ORR may not have mandated or been directly involved in a decision to fit certain equipment, however if Blackpool Transport have identified a need for this equipment in their overarching SMS they would be duty bound to either fit it to all vehicles or develop suitable internal processes and justifications to not require such. This isn't anything new: similar restriction have existed on the heritage (and also legacy) fleet essentially from day one - as part of the upgrade many of the road crossings became operated via transponders, and vehicles without this equipment were restricted to south of Bispham only.
Sadly so much of this was predictable in 2011, yet seemingly no long-term plans were formulated.
Unlike the old HMRI set up, there is generally no requirement for the ORR to be directly involved in the day to day minutiae of systems, or indeed signing off on equipment. This is all done by the relevant operator, or their independent contractor, as part of their 'Business As Usual' safety processes, as mandated by their Safety Management System which itself is a requirement under the Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) Regulations 2006 (ROGS). The ORR will usually only get involved if deficiencies are identified, either through routine or unannounced inspections or following a tip-off - this is where the Improvement Notice has come about.
Both statements can therefore be true at the same time: the ORR may not have mandated or been directly involved in a decision to fit certain equipment, however if Blackpool Transport have identified a need for this equipment in their overarching SMS they would be duty bound to either fit it to all vehicles or develop suitable internal processes and justifications to not require such. This isn't anything new: similar restriction have existed on the heritage (and also legacy) fleet essentially from day one - as part of the upgrade many of the road crossings became operated via transponders, and vehicles without this equipment were restricted to south of Bispham only.
That would assume that the other cars are in any suitable state to operate. There has been no significant investment in the heritage fleet since the end of traditional trams in 2011, including overhauls etc. Many of the heritage fleet were simply using up the available mileage from previous exams - part of the reason why 717, 736 and Bolton 66 (and latterly the Western Train 733+734) have been the cars of choice. There are also now additional requirements around things like asbestos per industry best practice, and of course the incident with Twin Set 2 (672+682/272+T2) in 2016 highlights why this is necessary. The lack of dedicated heritage engineering facilities will undoubtedly have a long term impact.
Sadly so much of this was predictable in 2011, yet seemingly no long-term plans were formulated.
Topmandog1
Member
Jonathan Lynch
Member
speculation but maybe to get the western train to take it to starr gate to commission for the illuminations?
Topmandog1
Member
I'd heard they have used westen train for spare parts previously, so who knows, but fylde transport trust claims the shunt was for them to move Railcoach 632 and our illuminated Rocket 732 to a different location in the sheds, maybe they are looking at working on them? - Facebook link
Jonathan Lynch
Member
Even access and moving trams for whatever purpose can only be a positive
Absolutely - really pleased to see this.
Leedsbusman
Member
To extract the Trampower prototype for removal.
For onward preservation, or scrap?
Jonathan Lynch
Member
Trampower to go back to orgional owner
western train to be washed and into service
new gates to be installed.
New gates is a big positive.
Class450/4DES
Member
Do anyone know where the Trampower prototype is going or what's going to happen to it?
If that's the one that caught fire then hopefully it's heading for the scrapyard
It does seem somewhat unlikely that there may be any further use for it at this stage!
Topmandog1
Member
wonder where the rumour western train was used for spares came from then if all it needs is a wash
also believe tram town is realising a video Saturday at 10am likely just footage of the shunting but we shall see
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Also there is this video from that channel
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and Part 2 with great shot of western train
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Tram towns video of the shunt
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The video does add a little further confusion to the status of the main shed, which has been variously described as condemned and not condemned depending on who you speak to. The comment that permits are required to enter and staff must wear hard hats - as indeed they are - very much suggests that all is not well, however others have suggested that the shed itself is fine!
Did stuff in that shed ever get washed? If routine stuff like that didn't happen, I hate to think what mechanical work and servicing failed to be done. Is it known exactly how many of those stored trams could actually be safely used?
Leyland Bus
Member
I run a group with several buses, some are stored for long periods. We do not wash them to put them back into store and get dusty again. Its a pointless exercise and a waste of valuable time. The same will be here. The amount of dust on them has no bearing on the condition of anything else.
Dust maybe
But some of those trams look covered in green algae and moss
Nothing new about them other than the wheels to aid moving them, gates are falling to bits.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
Interesting that the Western tram has its pan up. Whilst it obviously wasn’t taking power, are the wires still live? Presumably if so it would prevent theft.
Leedsbusman
Member
The wires won’t be live as there’s no powered movements. Past experience in Fleetwood suggest live wires don’t prevent theft.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
Thanks.
If someone nicks a tram where are they going to drive it?
Theft of the wires, not the tram.