East Croydon to Reading advice

Matr1x_101 · 17 Jul 2026

I'm buying a season ticket for a week from East Croydon to Reading for some work experience, and as part of the season ticket there's no permitted travel through London Terminals.

Would taking the train down to Redhill and then taking the north downs line to Reading be a permitted route? It's a bit of a diversion but still sometimes quicker if you are about to just miss the Clapham Junction to Reading service, plus it's more fun. Thanks in advance

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JonathanH · 17 Jul 2026

Matr1x_101 said:
Would taking the train down to Redhill and then taking the north downs line to Reading be a permitted route? It's a bit of a diversion but still sometimes quicker if you are about to just miss the Clapham Junction to Reading service, plus it's more fun. Thanks in advance

Nowadays the only mapped routes from Croydon Group to Reading Group are to go via London or to go via Staines and Clapham Junction (maps LB+WX) - this wasn't historically the case.

A "Not via London" season ticket from Croydon Stations to Reading Stations is therefore not valid via Redhill.

There are separate point-to-point tickets from Croydon Stations to Reading routed via Redhill, but no season ticket for that route.

However, a season ticket from Coulsdon South to Reading "Not via London" should be valid via both routes, and valid for entry / exit at East Croydon.

(Incidentally, the actual shortest route from Reading to East Croydon is via Reading - Virginia Water - Weybridge - Wimbledon - Streatham - East Croydon, being 45.75 miles, compared with 46.25 miles via Clapham Junction.)

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

13. The Routes You May Use
13.1 Your Ticket may show that it is valid only on certain train services, such as those ofa particular Train Company, or on trains travelling via a certain route or routes. If nospecific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on:
13.1.1 any direct train service between the station(s) shown on your Ticket;
13.1.2 by any services (including any change of trains) over the shortest route whichcan be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;
13.1.3 any other routes as shown in the ‘National Routeing Guide’.

Mcr Warrior · 17 Jul 2026

Wouldn't a series of Anytime Day Returns (route "not via London") at £16.90 per day, or route "via Redhill" at £23.00 per day, work out cheaper, assuming a 16-25 railcard discount can be applied?

Matr1x_101 · 18 Jul 2026

@Mcr Warrior I checked and it seems like you're right (I'm 16-17 saver but same point). I guess it's because the weekly season ticket assumes you might also go on the weekend which I won't.

Unfortunately I'm not in the mood to take the 60 every day down to Coulsdon South, so Clapham Junction it is.

Dirty_Mac · 18 Jul 2026

Matr1x_101 said:
@Mcr Warrior I checked and it seems like you're right (I'm 16-17 saver but same point). I guess it's because the weekly season ticket assumes you might also go on the weekend which I won't.

Unfortunately I'm not in the mood to take the 60 every day down to Coulsdon South, so Clapham Junction it is.

The saver also applies to season tickets.
Also, you can use the Coulsdon South ticket from East Croydon

talldave · 18 Jul 2026

Matr1x_101 said:
@Mcr Warrior I checked and it seems like you're right (I'm 16-17 saver but same point). I guess it's because the weekly season ticket assumes you might also go on the weekend which I won't.

Unfortunately I'm not in the mood to take the 60 every day down to Coulsdon South, so Clapham Junction it is.

I wish you luck. Doing a journey that involves Southern and SWR is like playing a daily lottery. Getting through a week without one of them have a meltdown is not easy but the occasional jackpot of a double meltdown is sublime. Clapham Junction as a SWR (mis) managed station is atrocious and once you've dealt with the banal PA drivel on Platform 5, you'll get to enjoy the threats of prosecution after every station on your Reading train!

Mcr Warrior · 18 Jul 2026

With a 16-17 Saver Railcard, the discounts available are slightly greater. An Anytime Day Return (route "not via London") would now be £12.70 per day, or route "via Redhill" at £17.30 per day. There is also an Anytime Day Return (route "✠Any Permitted") available, allowing travel via London, but that's £33.60 per day.

The seven day Season Ticket from East Croydon to/from Reading (only available to purchase as route "not via London") is £66.80 with the railcard discount. Unlikely to be the cheapest option.

Matr1x_101 · 19 Jul 2026

A season ticket looks to be £13.36 per day which is more expensive. I'm not unfamiliar with Southern's antics, but East Croydon to Clapham Junction is fairly reliable from my experience. I'm not familiar with SWR so we'll see how that goes XD.

Surreytraveller · 19 Jul 2026

GWR isn't particularly reliable from Redhill.

Pieman007 · 20 Jul 2026

Dirty_Mac said:
The saver also applies to season tickets.
Also, you can use the Coulsdon South ticket from East Croydon

Can I clarify what you mean here as I travel from Havant to ECR.... On a split ticket Hav to Merstham and Merstham to ECR.... Can I get it to Coulsdon South and still get through ECR barrier?
That doesn't seem right to me.....

JonathanH · 20 Jul 2026

Pieman007 said:
Can I clarify what you mean here as I travel from Havant to ECR.... On a split ticket Hav to Merstham and Merstham to ECR.... Can I get it to Coulsdon South and still get through ECR barrier?
That doesn't seem right to me.....

The situation here is that a ticket from Coulsdon South to Reading routed Not via London is valid via both Redhill and Putney.

In the specific instance of someone holding a season ticket, it can be used at any intermediate station including East Croydon. Because it provides unlimited travel, a user starting at East Croydon can travel to Reading via Putney, or travel through Coulsdon South to Redhill to change for Reading.

This specific point does not apply to day returns, where while a user can start short, the journey has to be made in the order the user has started their journey.

redreni · 20 Jul 2026

JonathanH said:
Nowadays the only mapped routes from Croydon Group to Reading Group are to go via London or to go via Staines and Clapham Junction (maps LB+WX) - this wasn't historically the case.

A "Not via London" season ticket from Croydon Stations to Reading Stations is therefore not valid via Redhill.

There are separate point-to-point tickets from Croydon Stations to Reading routed via Redhill, but no season ticket for that route.

However, a season ticket from Coulsdon South to Reading "Not via London" should be valid via both routes, and valid for entry / exit at East Croydon.

(Incidentally, the actual shortest route from Reading to East Croydon is via Reading - Virginia Water - Weybridge - Wimbledon - Streatham - East Croydon, being 45.75 miles, compared with 46.25 miles via Clapham Junction.)

https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...3/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2024.pdf

Shortest route was removed from the NRCoT last November. The shortest route rule is still part of the Routeing Guide, but the NRCoT no longer says you can validate a route using the Routeing Guide; it just says you can check the the Routeing Guide data which "supports Journey Planners" (whatever that means), but confers no right to rely on it.

It also doesn't expressly say that if the NRE journey planner offers a route with a day ticket such as an Anytime Single with the same routeing as the season ticket you hold, then the season ticket is valid by that route. It is a mystery to me, therefore, since last November, how a season ticket holder or a person contemplating buying a season ticket is expected to work out which routes they may use.

Matr1x_101 · 22 Jul 2026

Update: So twice on the way back this week, I just missed the SWR service from Reading to Clapham Junction. I got the GWR to Redhill and changed for a Thameslink to East Croydon, got ticket inspected both times and nothing happened (except them asking for my saver card). I assume this is because the Redhill route does show up on the National Rail journey planner per the new NRCoT (it does "includ[e] the relevant restrictions applying to that Ticket" (i.e. NOT VIA LONDON) and "show[] on an itinerary presented by the journey planner on www.nationalrail.co.uk" per attached). Or maybe it was a fluke and the system was bugging, who knows.

This is quite weird though, since it makes the "via Redhill" ticket completely pointless to buy, since it would be more expensive and less flexible.

JonathanH · 22 Jul 2026

Matr1x_101 said:
So twice on the way back this week, I just missed the SWR service from Reading to Clapham Junction. I got the GWR to Redhill and changed for a Thameslink to East Croydon, got ticket inspected both times and nothing happened (except them asking for my saver card). I assume this is because the Redhill route does show up on the National Rail journey planner per the new NRCoT (it does "includ[e] the relevant restrictions applying to that Ticket" (i.e. NOT VIA LONDON) and "show[] on an itinerary presented by the journey planner on www.nationalrail.co.uk" per attached). Or maybe it was a fluke and the system was bugging, who knows.

It may well be that the guards on the Redhill line have given you the benefit of the doubt, because they are not aware that tickets between Croydon and Reading 'not via London' are not now valid via Redhill. That is great, and passenger friendly, but it doesn't change what the routeing guide says.

The Redhill route shows up on the itineraries, but £17.30 for the 0747 is the 'via Redhill' fare. The other £33.60 fares are 'Any Permitted' itineraries via Paddington. The 0730 itinerary is via Putney and that is the one which is £12.70.

Matr1x_101 · 22 Jul 2026

JonathanH said:
It may well be that the guards on the Redhill line have given you the benefit of the doubt, because they are not aware that tickets between Croydon and Reading 'not via London' are not now valid via Redhill. That is great, and passenger friendly, but it doesn't change what the routeing guide says.

The Redhill route shows up on the itineraries, but £17.30 for the 0747 is the 'via Redhill' fare. The other £33.60 fares are 'Any Permitted' itineraries via Paddington. The 0730 itinerary is via Putney and that is the one which is £12.70.

I don't understand how the routing guide is still relevant though. It's not mentioned in the new NRCoT (https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...e/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2026.pdf), and you linked the old NRCoT in your initial reply. Section 13.1.2 pretty much says as long as the National Rail website says it's a valid route, it's a valid route. My ticket also doesn't say "you have to use SWR", so whilst I think you're supposed to use SWR (it's the recommended itenary), there's no legal restriction. Seems to be a grey water at least, they should definitely make it clearer.

JonathanH · 22 Jul 2026

Matr1x_101 said:
I don't understand how the routing guide is still relevant though. It's not mentioned in the new NRCoT (https://assets.nationalrail.co.uk/e...e/National_Rail_Conditions_of_Travel_2026.pdf), and you linked the old NRCoT in your initial reply.

Yes, I falsely linked the old Conditions of Travel - sorry for doing that - but...

Matr1x_101 said:
Section 13.1.2 pretty much says as long as the National Rail website says it's a valid route, it's a valid route.

...the itinerary via Redhill does not show the 'Not via London' fare. There is very much a valid route via Redhill, but the fare shown is the 'via Redhill' fare.

Matr1x_101 said:
My ticket also doesn't say "you have to use SWR", so whilst I think you're supposed to use SWR (it's the recommended itenary), there's no legal restriction. Seems to be a grey water at least, they should definitely make it clearer.

Maybe needs someone else to comment on that, but if the National Rail website is showing a more expensive fare for itineraries via Redhill, it doesn't seem apparent to me that the cheaper fare is valid. Even if the Routeing Guide doesn't get referred to explicitly in the Conditions of Travel it still sits behind the Journey Planner.

If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on:

13.1.1 any direct train service between the stations shown on your Ticket; or

13.1.2 as shown on an itinerary presented by the journey planner on www.nationalrail.co.uk or from a Licensed Retailer in connection with the purchase of a Ticket and/or including the relevant restrictions applying to
that Ticket.

INFORMATION: You can also go online to check the National Routeing Guide data which supports Journey Planners at www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/routeing-guide.

INFORMATION: The National Rail Journey Planner lets you select any specific journey and allows you to include specific locations you wish to travel through. It will display valid Tickets for your chosen journey alongside the train times.

Matr1x_101 · 22 Jul 2026

Whilst I agree the argument sounds, well, pretty nonsensical, the letter of the NCRoT says:

"as shown on an itinerary presented by the journey planner on www.nationalrail.co.uk or from a Licensed Retailer"

Checkmark per screenshot

in connection with the purchase of a Ticket and/or including the relevant restrictions applying to that Ticket.

Well, the first condition isn't true because I didn't purchase the "via Redhill". The second condition is true because the relevant restriction is "not via london" which is met by this ticket. So checkmark since it's an and/or condition.

By the letter of the NCRoT (probably not the spirit) I would think it's a valid ticket. The routing guide in the information is useful but since it just says "information" and not "you must follow the guide" I'm not sure if it's even part of the contract anymore. This thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...to-national-rail-conditions-of-travel.293598/ seems to also have no idea, it all seems very wishy washy by National Rail.

It's possible I'm missing something massive, if so please point it out, I might be very wrong

redreni · 23 Jul 2026

Condition 13 is so badly worded it's astonishing it made it past the first person who checked it in the form in which it has appeared, so it's a bit of a guessing game.

The intention is definitely that the Any Permitted fare allows any of the permitted routes shown in the Routeing Guide (including via London), the cheaper Not Via London fare includes the permitted routes shown in the Routeing Guide with the exception of those passing through London Group, and the intermediately priced Via Redhill fare allows travel via Redhill, which is not otherwise a permitted route.

The NRE journey planner will show all sorts of itineraries, including many where it cannot find one ticket that would cover the journey and has to either present a fare based on a combination of tickets or just throw its hands up and admit it can't find a fare for the journey. You do need to pay attention to the ticket(s) presented alongside each journey option if you're using it to validate a route for use with a specific ticket. The fact the itinerary via Redhill is only offered with a via Redhill ticket does not, in my view, establish that a ticket with a different route restriction (particularly a cheaper ticket) is valid by that route.

The via Redhill route restriction in this case doesn't limit you to a subset of the permitted routes (those passing through Redhill), it makes the ticket valid to go via what would otherwise be a non-permitted route. It's like a Twyford to London Terminals via Reading ticket in that respect.

MrJeeves · 23 Jul 2026

redreni said:
The NRE journey planner will show all sorts of itineraries, including many where it cannot find one ticket that would cover the journey and has to either present a fare based on a combination of tickets or just throw its hands up and admit it can't find a fare for the journey.

In this case, it even shows Reading to East Croydon via Redhill as being valid with contactless!

Swedenorer · 23 Jul 2026

Playing with the Southern Journey Planner and entering no via route it defaults the amy permitted to Clapham Junction or Padd offering only a single via Redhill only for the service that connects. Does this mean that the any permitted is not valid via Redhill? No I think it simply means it's working on the assumption that you want the quickest journey - which is where planner sales sites simply don't work. At least for me. Would I rely on the Redhill route to save a few quid? No - certainly not though it seems more reliable at the moment.

JonathanH · 23 Jul 2026

Swedenorer said:
Does this mean that the any permitted is not valid via Redhill?

There is no mapped route between Croydon and Reading which includes Redhill.

Paul Kelly · 23 Jul 2026

JonathanH said:
There is no mapped route between Croydon and Reading which includes Redhill.

Isn't this a classic case when this rule applies:

National Routeing Guide Section A said:
You may only use all the permitted routes if the fare is unrouted or the route is described as "any permitted". An "any permitted" ticket cannot be used for travel on a route not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a higher priced route specific fare exists. It can be used on any route not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists.

FenMan · 23 Jul 2026

Swedenorer said:
Playing with the Southern Journey Planner and entering no via route it defaults the amy permitted to Clapham Junction or Padd offering only a single via Redhill only for the service that connects. Does this mean that the any permitted is not valid via Redhill? No I think it simply means it's working on the assumption that you want the quickest journey - which is where planner sales sites simply don't work. At least for me. Would I rely on the Redhill route to save a few quid? No - certainly not though it seems more reliable at the moment.

Unofficially, the journey time to East Croydon via Redhil is competitive with the via Clapham Junction route if the North Downs is behaving itself.

An example:

A GWR service to Gatwick arrives on Plt. 1 at xx:14, then a 5 metre "walk" to Plt. 2 to catch the xx:18 Horsham- Bedford, giving a through journey time of 1h39m

JonathanH · 23 Jul 2026

Paul Kelly said:
Isn't this a classic case when this rule applies:

Yes, very much so for the 'Any Permitted' fare, but only because of the separate 'via Redhill' fare.

Surreytraveller · 23 Jul 2026

Paul Kelly said:
Isn't this a classic case when this rule applies:

Indeed. If they wanted the any permitted fare to not be valid via redh, surely it should be routed 'not Redhill'?

MrJeeves · 23 Jul 2026

Paul Kelly said:
Isn't this a classic case when this rule applies:

It would be if the OP's fare was routed Any Permitted. The strict reading would be that a NOT VIA LONDON fare couldn't be used on a cheaper routed fare, and this rule from the routeing guide only applies to Any Permitted.

In reality, of course, a change of route excess could be "purchased" for £0.00 for a point-to-point ticket, but there is no concept of this for a season ticket as far as I am aware, and combined with the NRCoT changes which mean a change of route excess must be obtained before starting a journey, it's now more difficult to argue this case than it once was.

redreni · 24 Jul 2026

MrJeeves said:
In this case, it even shows Reading to East Croydon via Redhill as being valid with contactless!

It'd be interesting to test this. Given the terms people have to agree to when they use Contactless are literally non-existent, the railway would need to place heavy reliance on any maps or signs that might be on display at East Croydon and/or any announcements that may be made on southbound trains from East Croydon explaining that Contactless is not valid beyond this point etc.

"NRE told me I could go this way" would, on the face of it, seem like a pretty strong argument that it should be allowed. It's not as if people have agreed not to, or been told they can't, use a route that goes outside the Contactless area provided the start and end stations are both inside the area.

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