Very poor lighting on trains

GoneSouth · 19 Jul 2026

As many have said, I’d prefer the train to run with a few duff lights than not at all.

@CyrusWuff mentioned turfing people out at the next ‘appropriate’ station, this is potentially more unsafe than staying on board a dark train. It was suggested that you might have to wait 2 hours for road transport at a station in the middle of nowhere or an area you don’t know. I’d suggest this is a pretty uncomfortable situation to be in or less safe for many.

RailUK Forums

800002 · 19 Jul 2026

GoneSouth said:
@CyrusWuff mentioned turfing people out at the next ‘appropriate’ station, this is potentially more unsafe than staying on board a dark train. It was suggested that you might have to wait 2 hours for road transport at a station in the middle of nowhere or an area you don’t know. I’d suggest this is a pretty uncomfortable situation to be in or less safe for many

An operator will risk assess everything (or should do), but can only apply that once it had been brought to their attention.

As CryusWuff alluded to, each TOC has their own method of dealing with such events.
If it is unsafe to lockout vehicles due to having no competent staff / available egress for persons on board- the unit is not fit to convey members of the public.

ONLY ENACTED WHEN THE OPERATOR IS MADE AWARE OF THE SITUATION.

It is not as easy, as I think you may believe, to see an accurate level of light inside the saloon from the outside when walking down the platform while changing ends.

Bald Rick · 19 Jul 2026

76020 said:
The point that I am trying to make here is that this EMU should not have gone out in service in the first place in this state, it is poor maintenance by the train care team in my view.

The train would not have entered service with the lights out. How is it poor maintenance?

76020 said:
I am no electrician

Ah. So you don’t know about howq lights trip.

trebor79 · 19 Jul 2026

76020 said:
Either way, a blown fuse or emergency lighting, to me the train should have not have been running in this state. As I previously stated, it was late at night, a near empty train with hardly any lighting, this is not a safe travelling environment and can make passengers very uneasy.

I've sought out the dark carriage when the guard has apologised for no lights on coach whatever. Much nicer travelling environment.

76020 said:
Can someone take this seriously please, it is the train operating companies to make sure that their trains are as safe as possible, my journey was just after the England defeat against Argentina, therefore some people are not going to be very happy. The lack of lighting is not a positive, it could create a very unpleasant situation for someone, especially if you are a young lady travelling on your own.

So go sit in a carriage with working lights of that's how you feel. Or would you rather be left on a desolate windswept platform after dark and the train cancelled? No? Thought not.

Russel · 20 Jul 2026

A two page thread over a minor issue that could have been solved by moving to one of the other 3 carriages where the lighting was working... :rolleyes:

GoneSouth · 20 Jul 2026

Russel said:
A two page thread over a minor issue that could have been solved by moving to one of the other 3 carriages where the lighting was working...

I’ve contributed, but couldn’t agree more. None issue.

It seems the OP was worried that people might behave badly on the train after the England defeat to Argentina. I suspect they’d behave a lot worse if they were left on the platform after the train was cancelled because half a dozen lights didn’t work.

AlterEgo · 20 Jul 2026

76020 said:
As I have already stated, I will post C2C's response, they said it will take 20 working days to reply.

Something like:

I am sorry that you found the internal lighting inadequate on your recent journey with us.

Each day, when trains leave our depot, they are checked for faults like this. While great care is taken to ensure trains do not enter service with ceiling lights not working, sometimes it is the case that faults can develop during the course of a train's passenger workings that day. Where this happens, we will always do our best to attempt to rectify or mitigate the fault at the earliest opportunity. If you notice a fault and you don't feel safe, please let our staff know, or contact us via the methods listed on our Contact Us page (link).

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention; your feedback has been logged and I can assure you will be noted by the relevant management.

Kind Regards

While it's never a complete waste of time complaining about anything (the company needs to know passengers notice things!), the reality is by the time anyone reads this the light will have been fixed.

76020 · 20 Jul 2026

AlterEgo said:
Something like:

I am sorry that you found the internal lighting inadequate on your recent journey with us.

Each day, when trains leave our depot, they are checked for faults like this. While great care is taken to ensure trains do not enter service with ceiling lights not working, sometimes it is the case that faults can develop during the course of a train's passenger workings that day. Where this happens, we will always do our best to attempt to rectify or mitigate the fault at the earliest opportunity. If you notice a fault and you don't feel safe, please let our staff know, or contact us via the methods listed on our Contact Us page (link).

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention; your feedback has been logged and I can assure you will be noted by the relevant management.

Kind Regards

While it's never a complete waste of time complaining about anything (the company needs to know passengers notice things!), the reality is by the time anyone reads this the light will have been fixed.

I totally agree with you about the answer that I expect from C2C, but I also expect a follow up E-Mail to ask me how did we do with your query, which is basically a load of hot air and nothing will get done.

I must say that the reason and the only reason that I posted this is to ask if anybody has had a similar experience and can I say thank you to those have replied to this.

As I have stated already the darkness did not bother me in the slightest, I was thinking about people who would feel vulnerable in a situation like this.

800002 · 20 Jul 2026

76020 said:
I totally agree with you about the answer that I expect from C2C, but I also expect a follow up E-Mail to ask me how did we do with your query, which is basically a load of hot air and nothing will get done.

What was it that the railway did to you to make you feel this strongly about C2C and about something which appears wholy within your control to resolve in the first instance?

The exile · 20 Jul 2026

76020 said:
I totally agree with you about the answer that I expect from C2C, but I also expect a follow up E-Mail to ask me how did we do with your query, which is basically a load of hot air and nothing will get done.
I must say that the reason and the only reason that I posted this is to ask if anybody has had a similar experience and can I say thank you to those have replied to this.
As I have stated already the darkness did not bother me in the slightest, I was thinking about people who would feel vulnerable in a situation like this.

And who would therefore move to another carriage, not board in the first place or choose to get off. How would you feel about the vulnerable person travelling alone who had to walk home because the train had been cancelled because a few lights weren’t working in one carriage?

aaronspence · 20 Jul 2026

One of those situations where we are all grown ups here and don’t need hand held

76020 · 20 Jul 2026

800002 said:
What was it that the railway did to you to make you feel this strongly about C2C and about something which appears wholy within your control to resolve in the first instance?

As I have already stated, the poor state of the lighting, the train care team not doing their job.

I always tried to do a good job in the profession that I was in, but I knew some people who I worked with who could not care less and all they are worried about is getting paid.

We are going away from the issue of this thread here and I will not talk about what sort of work I do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jul 2026 ==

The exile said:
And who would therefore move to another carriage, not board in the first place or choose to get off. How would you feel about the vulnerable person travelling alone who had to walk home because the train had been cancelled because a few lights weren’t working in one carriage?

Agreed, but again we are covering ground that has already been talked about here in that I would be very surprised if there was not any spare units available.

So that's it as far as I am concerned apart from the C2C reply that I will post, this thread seems to be going round and round in circles.

800002 · 20 Jul 2026

Let's just lock this one away and be done with it.

London Trains · 20 Jul 2026

This thread just shows how anyone who posts something that doesn't fit the forum's "agenda" gets shouted down and bombarded with rude and dismissive comments.

GoneSouth · 20 Jul 2026

London Trains said:
This thread just shows how anyone who posts something that doesn't fit the forum's "agenda" gets shouted down and bombarded with rude and dismissive comments.

What’s the agenda regarding a few lights that weren’t working?

I was on a voyager earlier where half the lights on the whole train weren’t working. Does that make it unsafe to use? I don’t think so. I’m currently on a newly refurbished voyager heading north and guess what, one of lights isn’t working. It happens. It’s not bad maintenance in this case, the lights are brand new. Things just fail.

800002 · 20 Jul 2026

GoneSouth said:
Things just fail.

I wonder if there is an engine out somewhere.
This looks like what happens on the 168s sometimes when the engine drops out / carriage goes into a sort of eco mode to save on power.

Russel · 20 Jul 2026

London Trains said:
This thread just shows how anyone who posts something that doesn't fit the forum's "agenda" gets shouted down and bombarded with rude and dismissive comments.

I wouldn't say there is an agenda, it's just not really the big issue it's being made out to be, the lights in one part of one carriage out of four failed while in service, leaving three and a half other carriages to choose from.

There is very little chance the unit left the depot like this, so it's not a lack of maintenance, things occasionally fail and it will probably have been noted by the driver changing ends or station staff at the end of it's journey.

Bletchleyite · 20 Jul 2026

800002 said:
I wonder if there is an engine out somewhere.
This looks like what happens on the 168s sometimes when the engine drops out / carriage goes into a sort of eco mode to save on power.

Yes, that coach is in power saving mode. Half main lighting, no spots and no reservation displays.

The one that prompted the initial discussion looks like emergency mode to me. The positions of the tubes that light up are not "regular", they are based on where minimal light is needed for safety.

168s (like Sprinters and Turbos generally) have no cross feed so if the engine is out you just get a few tubes as emergency lighting.

The exile · 21 Jul 2026

London Trains said:
This thread just shows how anyone who posts something that doesn't fit the forum's "agenda" gets shouted down and bombarded with rude and dismissive comments.

I’m sure if the original post had been a query “how might this happen? Why was it allowed out of the depot like this?” the responses would have been very different. I don’t think anyone has challenged the concept that a train in service with multiple lights not working is suboptimal. What they have challenged is the hyperbole and accusatory jumping to conclusions without evidence that accompanied the report. The danger of that kind of hyperbole is that a “little boy crying wolf” situation develops (unfortunately an all too common side-effect of social media - or maybe even the intention behind those who steer it).

CyrusWuff · 21 Jul 2026

Bletchleyite said:
168s (like Sprinters and Turbos generally) have no cross feed so if the engine is out you just get a few tubes as emergency lighting.

The six 168/2s have cross feeding as they were built in 2004, around the same time as the later builds of 170s.

sh24 · 21 Jul 2026

The exile said:
I’m sure if the original post had been a query “how might this happen? Why was it allowed out of the depot like this?” the responses would have been very different. I don’t think anyone has challenged the concept that a train in service with multiple lights not working is suboptimal. What they have challenged is the hyperbole and accusatory jumping to conclusions without evidence that accompanied the report. The danger of that kind of hyperbole is that a “little boy crying wolf” situation develops (unfortunately an all too common side-effect of social media - or maybe even the intention behind those who steer it).

Beautifully put. It's not right, but it certainly isn't cause for drama.

Had carriage lights out on a Scotrail 158 a few weeks ago. The conductor asked us to move, we did, everyone carried on with their journey without fretting about personal safety.

occone · 21 Jul 2026

It's also important to consider that our eyes will adjust to lower lighting very quickly. It's unnerving if the lights suddenly go out like when a train I was on needed rebooting which left us in darkness for about 30 seconds.

Safety wise the biggest risk is someone walking when the lights go out and trips before their eyes adjust.

Even a gentle moon light or one of those tiny emergency lights is enough to see where you're going.

BurningFeetMan · 22 Jul 2026

Lighting faults, along with other electrical issues have happened previously, and will happen again. So to answer your question, yes, other people have experienced it before.

I'm disappointed that you decided it's down to poor maintenance and / or maintenance staff "not doing their job". A fault can occur at any time and indeed a dynamic risk assessment would be carried out to decide if it was OK to continue and what, if any, actions need to be taken.

I'm really not sure what outcome you are looking for.

76020 · 22 Jul 2026

BurningFeetMan said:
Lighting faults, along with other electrical issues have happened previously, and will happen again. So to answer your question, yes, other people have experienced it before.

I'm disappointed that you decided it's down to poor maintenance and / or maintenance staff "not doing their job". A fault can occur at any time and indeed a dynamic risk assessment would be carried out to decide if it was OK to continue and what, if any, actions need to be taken.

I'm really not sure what outcome you are looking for.

If it is not poor maintenance, then how did it happen?
There were other lights out, which was apart from the area that was in darkness, this suggests to me that this coach has been running with reduced lighting for some time.

I really believe that this thread has run it's course and as I have already said, it is going around in circles.

BorderCollie · 22 Jul 2026

And to think the experience of being in a totally unlit MK1 carriage of compartments directly behind a class 85 bombing up the northern WCML late at night, with all the spectacle of electrical flashes on a moonlit winter's night looking out on a beautiful landscape where detail is still visible is something the current generation will never experience saddens me.

Sun Chariot · 22 Jul 2026

BorderCollie said:
And to think the experience of being in a totally unlit MK1 carriage of compartments directly behind a class 85 bombing up the northern WCML late at night, with all the spectacle of electrical flashes on a moonlit winter's night looking out on a beautiful landscape where detail is still visible is something the current generation will never experience saddens me.

+1
I well remember Mk1 comps where the filament bulbs were so dim, I couldn't read my book.
I can remember a Calder Valley 110 DMU saloon in total darkness through Standedge Tunnel.
I can remember many occasions of a carriage saloon, or compartment, with some filament bulbs stolen or unlit.
I remember our 31/4 failing near Dent in 1984, carriage batteries "low" two hours later, so we enjoyed a biblical rain storm in near-blackout condition.
The one occasion I found my "darkness travelling" too disconcerting, I used a bit of "nous" and I moved to a better-lit part of the train.
It's what we did in the 1970s, 80s and 90s. The trains got through and we got on with life.
And I, too, remember watching the AC panto sparks in the darkness!

Modern trains have eye-achingly bright lighting.
A few bulbs unlit, might be due to short-circuit (i.e. water ingress into a conduit), it's not merely "end of life" bulbs.

Dr Hoo · 22 Jul 2026

BorderCollie said:
And to think the experience of being in a totally unlit MK1 carriage of compartments directly behind a class 85 bombing up the northern WCML late at night, with all the spectacle of electrical flashes on a moonlit winter's night looking out on a beautiful landscape where detail is still visible is something the current generation will never experience saddens me.

Yes, even with my dad striking a match so that we could find our way to the buffet where the steward was happy to serve a couple of drinks by the light of a single candle.
What was the slogan? Oh yes, “Britain’s New Electric Railway”.

The exile · 22 Jul 2026

76020 said:
If it is not poor maintenance, then how did it happen?
There were other lights out, which was apart from the area that was in darkness, this suggests to me that this coach has been running with reduced lighting for some time.

I really believe that this thread has run it's course and as I have already said, it is going around in circles.

You cannot maintain a fuse. I may be speaking through my metaphorical hat, but have you considered that the lights that were out might all have been on one circuit that had, for some reason, tripped?
I don’t think anyone in here has tried to suggest that the reason couldn’t be poor maintenance, merely that to suggest it must be is incorrect and unnecessarily accusatory.

Russel · 22 Jul 2026

76020 said:
If it is not poor maintenance, then how did it happen?
There were other lights out, which was apart from the area that was in darkness, this suggests to me that this coach has been running with reduced lighting for some time.

I really believe that this thread has run it's course and as I have already said, it is going around in circles.

Please explain which components haven't been maintained that have directly resulted in the scenario you encountered?

You seem very sure so I presume you have an answer?

A thread hasn't run its course just because you haven't got the response you wanted.

Trackman · 22 Jul 2026

Sun Chariot said:
+1
I well remember Mk1 comps where the filament bulbs were so dim, I couldn't read my book.
I can remember a Calder Valley 110 DMU saloon in total darkness through Standedge Tunnel.

First gen DMUs never had lights on during the day, but I think it was the guards jobs to switch the lights on when entering a tunnel.
MK1 compos, indeed. Just added to the atmosphere!

Very poor lighting on trains

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member