New Go-op train service between Swindon, Taunton and Weston-super-Mare approved by ORR - Access Rights now lapsed

overthere 2 said:

Two questions I have about the track access:

1 - If Go-Op were miraculously to find the cash to do their original plan "today" how long would it take for them to go through the whole process again to get a fresh track access contract to be able to run trains?

2 - If Go-Op were to do a basic shuttle just between Minehead and Taunton as described above with ex-proper mainline trained staff is there a way that a new track access contract could be issued with less demands/hoops to jump through which would equal less cost and a quicker start?

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Approximately 12 to 18 months in both cases, if all goes well. But that means they would have had to do some solid preparation with NR and a ROSCO beforehand.

But with GBR on the horizon, they would probably have to apply to them if they wanted to start in Dec 2028 and their application will be assessed in a different way than the ORR currently does. To get a “capacity commitment” (to use the new phrase), they will be assessed on Treasury “Green Book” rules so I would say their chances of success are very slim to nil.

Presumably a requirement still remains for a TOC to have access to significant financial reserves as part of the due diligence process?

BBC article says Go-Op have now partnered with energy company Electrocity for its EV charging hubs, initially for electric buses, but also for battery trains. Possibly the energy company will provide capital funding

Go-op, which recently formed as a co-operative, previously received permission to run diesel rail services in Somerset and Wiltshire but was unable to secure the necessary funding.

It has now said it wants to create charging hubs for electric buses that serve train stations before developing trains powered solely by batteries.

The co-operative said it intended to convert either former diesel or electric trains to battery power but that the charging hubs had to be established first.

"We had to go back to the drawing board and ask ourselves some very serious questions," said Lawrie.

"We came to realise we were not being ambitious enough.

"It's a case of saying, 'What are the key railway stations in Somerset and possibly Wiltshire' where we can establish these charging hubs with large scale lineside batteries suitable for a range of public transport options, not just rail."

He added the co-operative would now begin building a business case to present to Network Rail and the Office of Rail and Road.

Previously, Go-Op said it wanted to "compete with Great Western Railway"and offer more stops at stations such as Taunton, Weston-super-Mare, Westbury, Swindon and Frome through use of diesel rolling stock.

For its new venture, Go-op is collaborating with green energy company Ecotricity.

Ecotricity founder Dale Vince said: "We've been advocating battery-powered trains for some years now – by using them we could electrify all of Britain's train lines and journeys, without the usual incredibly high costs of overhead lines.

"Hopefully, we'll be able to demonstrate the potential this idea has, working with Go-op and others on this very exciting project."

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The words "pie" and "sky" come to mind...

TastyMaltesers said:

The words "pie" and "sky" come to mind...

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What do you mean? Go-op have decided that their failure wasn't due to any of the reasons discussed in this thread, but rather that their previous plan wasn't difficult enough!

Operations director Alex Lawrie said the co-operative had "not been ambitious enough" with its previous plans and was committed to developing a service "fit for the 21st Century".

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In the latest issue of RAIL magazine, issue 1066 July 23 - August 5 2026 - so no link - they have got a half page about Go-Ops latest plans then further on a 2 page spread giving a potted history of Go-Op and talking generally about open access operators and their trials and tribulation's.

Here are a few of the main points and my thoughts:

Go-Op say that investors told them there plans were not game changing enough.

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They didn't specifically say that the investor's didn't like their original plans and instead they wanted them to do electric buses and convert old diesel's/electric trains in to battery trains but if it was them saying that, then Go-Op should have pointed out that they are struggling to raise £2.5 million to do their basic plans so unless the investors were willing to put possibly tens of millions in the pot then those ideas would have to wait.

Though I did wonder were any of the investors certain Rail Forum member's who put forward the idea of using "cure all" electric buses first and "nasty horrible trains" sometime in the future

The routes they want to serve have changed, they now want to do Westbury - Taunton ditching Melksham and Swindon as they say they would be "messy" also it mean's not having to pay for crossing upgrades. They also want to ditch Weston - Super - Mare and terminate at Bristol Temple Meads.

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Finding a way to get out of paying for the crossing upgrades is about the only good thing in their new plans.

I don't know much about the railway's in that area, but is there much of a demand for people from Westbury wanting to go to Bruton and Castle Cary or Taunton because I would have thought the demand would be to Swindon or Bristol but via Bath?

Also in the article - unlike the website - there is no mention of WSR/Minehead so no potential commuter/Butlins traffic which Go-Op, GWR, X-Country trains could have worked on together therefore I cant see GWR and X-Country being happy to share with another operator on an already busy route and taking a cut of the passenger's and subsequent revenue also in a fairly recent article I read they had an interview with some guy from GWR and he was saying: "That with the Portishead trains and the extra Henbury trains possibly terminating at Bristol Temple Meads then platform space is all ready at a premium".

So where Go-Op think they are going fit in is any ones guess.

Go - Op say the reason that the crowd funding failed was because they had no backers.

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No backers was indeed PART of the problem but that problem could have easily been solved if they had just followed post #356 because with: GWR, X - Country, Butlins, WSR and local council's backing the project then raising the money would have been no problem.

As crowd funding didn't work they shifted to targeting a smaller number of wealthy individual's

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I haven't watched Dragons Den for a while now but some times you would have people who came on and pitched an idea which the dragons liked it but when they asked simple questions, for example if the person had come up with a tool for the building trade, they would say: "Have you taken it to your local DIY centre or trade counter to ask what they think of your product and ask for feedback"? or "Have you at least done some rough figures on what it might cost you to make so you know what your selling price will be so you know if you can make a profit with it"? and some other basic questions more often than not there answer's were "err", "umm", and "err" also to some of them the dragons would say: "I like your product and I think it might have possibilities but I think you would be a nightmare to work with or I would have to end up running the business for you so I'm not investing".
Sadly I cant help thinking that's what the wealthy individuals said after listening to Go-Ops original proposals and with this latest idea they would be saying: "Thank god I never got involved with this".

In the article it says they are hoping to do a presentation to Ecotricity for investment.

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Two things strike me as a bit odd about this statement:

First of all when they started to target wealthy individuals then surely Dale Vince the owner of Ecotricty would have been high on the list as environmentalist's bang on all the time about how everybody should use public transport yet when the bill stood only at £2.5 million he obviously wasn't interested as they would be gearing up to start services by now so why on earth do they think he would be interested now when the bill - being generous - stands at I'm guessing at at least £10, 15 million plus for everything they want to do.

Secondly - I presume the RAIL article was written before the BBC article but depending on the time line it seems a bit quick between hoping to do a presentation to Ecotricity in the RAIL article and the BBC article saying that Go-Op and Ecotricity are collaborating on this project as you would have thought that Vince would want to really look in to the new plans particularly as he could be committing to spending and likely loosing tens of million's of pounds s on this also it takes time for contracts to be drawn up and signed so I'm just wondering if they have talked to Vince, he's said he will think about it, then Go-Op have gone public hoping to bounce him in to signing up as it would look bad for him once they went public if he turned round and said "No".



Also when it come's to Vince I know the environmental, left, PC brigade love him but like a lot of people who say the "right" thing, once you look at what they actually do it is a whole different story.

In 2010 Vince brought Forest Green rovers FC and wanted to make it a "Green Environmentally friendly club" so he introduced things like plant based meat and other "green" things, In 2016 he announced he wanted to build a new eco stadium made out of wood and powered using renewable energy.

Meanwhile there is a campaign to reopen Stonehouse rail station on the Gloucester - Bristol line: https://stroudwaterstation.co.uk/ and so being a green champion and wanting to protect the environment you would have thought that he would want to get behind the project by building his new stadium - admittedly on food providing fields - next door to the station to provide a fairly regular long term guaranteed passenger flow for it.

But NO, where he wants to build his new stadium - again on food providing fields - is next to junction 13 of the M5 so no railway and I doubt any buses so the only way fans would be able to visit his eco stadium is by car weather it was petrol, diesel or battery as in there own ways they are as bad as each other.

Also what is being quietly ignored is that he also wants to build an industrial estate (not even insisting it is for "green" businesses only) next door to the stadium which again can only be accessed by lorries where if he built next door to the station there could be potential for rail freight.

Now you would have thought that considering the Stroud area is a strong hold of the Greens and the woke left then the council would have pointed out the above to Vince and refused planning permission, but once a few minor detail's had been ironed out it was waved through.

So to have a bloke who has deliberately turned his back on railway's and pushed people in to their cars investing in a railway company would be hypocrisy of the highest order.