How on earth does a discussion about the location of an un-marked bus stop suddenly become a critique of the parenting skills of an individual that we do not know? If it's on Streetview it's in the public domain anyway, and all I'm asking you to do is share a link to information that can be viewed by anyone in the world.
You seem to think that this particular site is utterly unique and that there's no other like it anywhere else in the country. Conveniently, you won't allow us to decide for ourselves and I really don't buy the excuse that you'd be compromising anyone's privacy; I suspect that you're afraid that we'll poke (more) holes in an argument that is already incapable of holding any water.
Unless you have 24-hour footage that records every movement along that lane, you cannot possibly know
for a fact that nobody uses the it in anything but a motor vehicle. You're quite undecided as to what is and isn't classed as "rural"; it is possible to be in a location that could be classed as rural and still be fairly close to the outskirts of a large town or city.
Come January next year I will have had my driving licence for 35 years and I'd like to think that I'm an experienced motorist. I've also been a keen cyclist and I while I don't come across horse riders on the road very much, it's not a rare occurrence.
What are "proper rural types in proper rural areas" anyway?
In no part of post #82 did you mention a lay-by.
Er, no. If
I see a bus stopped at the side of the road with its left indicator flashing my
first assumption would be that someone is either boarding or alighting and that there is potentially a hazard ahead, although it wouldn't necessarily have to be a child. I'd expect a broken-down bus to be displaying hazard lights in any case, but either way I'd be slowing down and potentially stopping if I didn't think it was safe to overtake; if I don't have clear view I'm more inclined to hold back and wait for the bus to depart.
You say that there's no safe place to stand in the lane, yet there's apparently a lay-by now. Is it not safe to stand in a lay-by? There are many, many roads that are tightly bordered by hedges, bushes and uneven high verges. Some of these roads even have bus routes running along them; I should know because I use them on a regular basis and have done since I was a nipper.
Well, let's put this whole argument to bed by sharing the Streetview link! We can all have a look at the road in question and make up our own minds. If you provide visual evidence to back up your assertions that this particular road is an utter death trap, I'll be less inclined to think that you're making it all up.
I thint the way you're avoiding things like tailgating and other issues raised by me tells me that all you want to see the Streetview for is to confirm what you surely ready know.
Even at 60mph, at 300m, you're going to be able to identify and react appropriately to a pulled over bus with an indicator on, whichever side of the road it is on. No dispute from me there.
I detect no awareness in you that this is not how accidents happen. This is not how once in a generation tragedies happen. It is a combination of factors, usually with speed as a major compentent, but where sight lines, expected and unexpected events, driver behavior, pedestrian awareness, other vehicles, visual distractions, all combine.
The Streetview won't change the basic facts. There is nowhere safe to stand, not when the farm is in use. Had you followed the thread with an open mind, you'd have followed things like what I mean by "layby".
I know what I know, and a scenario where 300m ahead, a bus is facing me, stopped, with an indicator on, not its hazards, clearly in service with a driver, but there's just as much tarmac to its left, my lane, a free lane I have no reason to think (since I can see) cannot be traversed at normal speed, as there is to its right, which at my speed I can only really say is some kind of layby, perhaps a bus stop, but if so, why has the bus not pulled over at all, and why is there no flag or road marking or shelter, just a 100 foot long farm shed, and where the hell is the passenger being picked up or alighting, they aren't on the bus, it's been stopped long enough now that I'd have seen them getting up, wait, is that them, the child walking a long way along the shed, just coming into view behind the bus.
That's already an unusual state of affairs for this area, perhaps indeed unique, as an official routine stop. So chuck in a tailgater, a speeding oncoming car, a low sun, a tractor concealing the child, another child or parent standing in the logical place to send the young thing off on their first day of school, unaware they are concealed to traffic approaching from behind, maybe a dog, a couple of bits of farm machinery visible in the shed, its doors open, and suddenly you are running out of thinking time fast.
It's no sweat for a professional, not even going to bother even pretty negligent drivers, if, the golden if, no child enters my lane when I'm not looking for it or expecting it. But an over confident teenage boy in a pocket rocket? Are you so confident now?
Because from everything you have said, here's the kicker. At this exact time of day, there quite well could be a child in my lane. It's the farmer's other kid. They're catching the other bus that, unbeknownst to me, is five minutes behind me.
And by your logic, they've been told to stand in my lane, but they're another 100 feet ahead of the farmer. As is normal for their peers at their city comp, they're not wearing high viz clothing, much less a flashing beacon, like a human traffic cone. They're looking my way, but not for risks, for their bus.
They're pretty small, as first year high schoolers can be. Maybe I saw them on first entering the straight, maybe I didn't. Maybe I'm reassured that now i have seen them, and I've figured out, or just depriortisied, whatever the hell is going on to the right at the near and far distances, I can react accordingly. I am doing so.
Maybe I don't even slow to walking pace, because who would. The child has seen me, and retreated to safety, having taken your advice and stood in one of the few identifiable places where there is a feature, a field gate. She's stepping back. We're all good.
Let's have one last look at what the hell this bus driver thinks he's doing, the silly sod. Yup, that'a a fair few hazards right there. There's two kids, play fighting on the rough gravel layby, even as they board the bus. Nothing to worry about. Not my lane, not my concern. I'll be clear in a moment.
I maybe take a microsecond to complete my thoughts. Yup, I see, that sunken kerb, that's the farmer's layby, not usable by a public bus. I guess this is an official stop though, a public service but routed and timed for school kids. I'll research why it isn't identifed later. Feels dodgy.
I turn back. The child ahead is making funny movements. I can't see, but it's obvious why. Her impractical (but peer approved) shoes, are not suitable for the steep cobbled entrance. She's unbalanced by her bag. She's falling. Into my lane. Maybe I'll get lucky and only run over her hand.
I pull up in good time. I'm not a teenage boy. 99% of everything I just experienced, I have seen before in one combination or other. I was ready. The only thing that threw me, was the bizarre situation of an unmarked bus stop.
Is it worth it? For the price of a bit of yellow paint for a box and the words BUS STOP? A bit of white paint on approach, for SLOW, or even the fancier red and white tarmac warning for children.
This situation may never happen. But it is by no means impossible.
I think by now it's obvious why I do not want to identify the farmer.
Without seeing the location it is impossible for us to judge. However, I have conducted bus stop risk assessments in the past and it involved going to site at school times and monitoring traffic for both speed and density. Speed was difficult not only to judge, but also as we were required to wear full hi-vis as we were classed as working on the highway, motorists tended to slow down when they saw us. But we'd arrive early drive past a few times and do the same afterwards which gave a good idea of the actual speed of the traffic flow. We'd be there for at least ten minutes, five either side of the time the bus was due, monitoring. We'd also look at walking routes to and from bus stops and the safety of crossing the road. We did unmarked locations just served by the school coach, marked stops with a shelter and several buses per hour and all in between. Any we felt were borderline we passed to the Road Safety Team for their opinion.
If a location was as bad as the OP suggests we'd probably not need to visit; our local knowledge being enough to say "no". In which case we'd arrange a taxi for the pupils which would often pick up at their door. Even then there would be an agreement between the taxi company and the parents over the safe place to pick up at the farm (in this case). I've had routes where the bus works round a loop the same way morning and evening to use the same stops where the one opposite was unsuitable, and cases where a bus passes in one direction, turns in a village and comes back where we insist the same side is used am and pm, even if that means the pupil has a slightly longer journey at one end of the day.
I'd also go out on the buses to check passes and timings as well as observing the stops (not a full assessment when you're in the front passenger seat on a coach, but you get an idea and drivers will express their thoughts about issues and problems). Contract compliance checks at schools were also a great opportunity to talk to drivers and build a rapport with them so they would report things, mention concerns, etc either directly or via their managers.
I no longer work in the Education Transport Team, but they still work in the same way. I am though still in the same department and only this week I overheard a conversation that said "I've spoken to the parent, the children will walk across the fields to the village bus stop, they own all that land and are used to walking that way". In other cases a parent might be driving to work past a safer bus stop and will put on their application form that they want transport from the village and not home, and there have been cases where we have issued hi-vis jackets in consultation with parents to make it easier for the driver to spot them at a distance. Not bus stop related, but I can recall the team measuring a walking route where the shortest route was along a canal towpath, but the official, measured, route was on the pavement as the risk assessment said that the canal presented a greater danger than the road.
Our council certainly don't act in the way the OP suggests councils do.
To be clear, I've never said this is an official council approved unmarked stop. All I know is that it exists in the digital realm. Hopefully, it has been made clear to the schools and only plausible residential user, that it is not a bus stop, and drivers have been insturcted not to serve it. And if needed, have provided alternative means.
