Possible future use of the 323s!? Your thoughts

liamf656 · 17 Jul 2026

leotren1215 said:
However it's not all bad as there are talks about keeping some on some smaller routes further up north, however the rest will either be scrapped or sent to a heritage railway. Still TBC.

Hope this helps

Is there a source to back your claims, or is it just a platform end rumour? I think we all know the 323s will end up getting scrapped but I've created this new thread to discuss the them further if anyone has any interesting ideas

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pokemonsuper9 · 17 Jul 2026

liamf656 said:
Possible future use of the 323s!?

Scrap, scrap, scrap, and scrap.
Maybe one can go in a Museum if someone finds the space.

Nym · 17 Jul 2026

Scrap, scrap and scrap.

Non-standard, extremely challenging parts from supply chains swallowed up into Faiverley / Wabtec / KBRS and not really able to be used on a heritage line without modifications that would be too costly to bear and would still have the same parts issues.

devon_belle · 17 Jul 2026

Razor blades, tin cans, ...

Seagull2006 · 17 Jul 2026

Destined to be scrapped. Can't see a 323 being preserved

Zomboid · 17 Jul 2026

Some museum might want a driving car, though I don't know how historically significant they are, are they the last BR EMU?

Otherwise they've done their bit.

brad465 · 17 Jul 2026

Zomboid said:
Some museum might want a driving car, though I don't know how historically significant they are, are they the last BR EMU?

Otherwise they've done their bit.

Pretty sure the last BR EMU is the 365, of which 3 carriages are already preserved.

If the demand existed to hold onto a dozen or so 323s until a new fleet order started churning out new EMUs, maybe they could keep some and then have a giant pool of spares from stripping down the rest, but scrapping everything seems most likely.

Liam L · 17 Jul 2026

The only place I can see them going is scrap.

Bayum · 17 Jul 2026

Give them to West Yorkshire after getting elderly 308s instead

NCT · 17 Jul 2026

Could half the fleet be retained with the other half being spares doners?

Are there any common parts with the 465s to warrant some 323s being retained for cannabilisation for Southeastern's aging 465s?

Bletchleyite · 17 Jul 2026

I would go for scrap. The suggestion on the other thread that they may be retained (with I guess a load of parts from the scrapped ones) for some quieter routes "up North" does make me wonder though. Chathill Flyer?

(Probably more likely Stalybridge-Wigan or the Hadfields, but who knows?)

TheGrew · 17 Jul 2026

If part availability is an issue, I can't imagine them being used for anything else. You would just end up in the Class 483 situation, where you would ever shrink the usable number of a small subfleet by cannibalising the parts from the others. I wonder if that is already occurring with the 9 units stored out of the original 43 and if they are still having problems with parts; that isn't hopeful.
Whilst I have enjoyed my experiences of the 323s, I am looking forward to the 350s, having grown up riding the 450s.

D365 · 17 Jul 2026

Bayum said:
Give them to West Yorkshire after getting elderly 308s instead

excellent!

Zomboid · 17 Jul 2026

Bletchleyite said:
I would go for scrap. The suggestion on the other thread that they may be retained (with I guess a load of parts from the scrapped ones) for some quieter routes "up North" does make me wonder though. Chathill Flyer?

(Probably more likely Stalybridge-Wigan or the Hadfields, but who knows?)

They could probably send a handful to Newcastle for the Morpeth and Chathill trains (though the Morpeths would need to reverse somewhere else and the interworking would need to charge) and free up some 158s.

Though they could equally do that with 350s, given they'll have more of those than they have 323s.

Bletchleyite · 17 Jul 2026

Zomboid said:
They could probably send a handful to Newcastle for the Morpeth and Chathill trains (though the Morpeths would need to reverse somewhere else and the interworking would need to charge) and free up some 158s.

Though they could equally do that with 350s, given they'll have more of those than they have 323s.

Might using 350s at 110mph actually create paths on the ECML vs. slow, 90mph 158s? I guess 323s would be about the same though better acceleration compared to 158s may help?

Zomboid · 17 Jul 2026

Bletchleyite said:
Might using 350s at 110mph actually create paths on the ECML vs. slow, 90mph 158s? I guess 323s would be about the same though better acceleration compared to 158s may help?

I'm sure cleverer people than me could work that equation out. A 350 will accelerate faster than a 158 for sure, so it might not create a path but I doubt it'd spend much time above 90 on those stoppers.

What the better acceleration might do (going crayon crazy) is enable a better service to the stations north of Morpeth, if there's somewhere convenient to reverse.

TastyMaltesers · 17 Jul 2026

I think as people have alluded to, the answer is probably either to cannibalise most of them to provide spares for a handful kept in service, or to scrap the lot.

m79900 · 18 Jul 2026

The Scottish 318/320s are considerably more old fashioned so 323s would be an upgrade. Unlikely, but most likely I reckon (other than scrap)

Zomboid · 18 Jul 2026

m79900 said:
The Scottish 318/320s are considerably more old fashioned so 323s would be an upgrade. Unlikely, but most likely I reckon (other than scrap)

I don't see why they'd want to replace one life expired EMU with a different life expired EMU. In fact the older, simpler DC drives in the 318/320s will probably be easier to keep going than the frequency drive 323s.

61653 HTAFC · 18 Jul 2026

Bayum said:
Give them to West Yorkshire after getting elderly 308s instead

If the old Transperience museum at Low Moor had been a success, a 323 unit (or just a driving car) would have been a nice addition to the collection as the units were built in Leeds. If it wasn't for the component sourcing issues they'd still have plenty of life in them though, and I wouldn't complain if they ended up working the Leeds to Huddersfield stoppers once the wires were up.

Being slightly more realistic, it would be nice to bring them "home" as part of a farewell tour when the time comes... though the wiring between Stalybridge and Huddersfield won't be completed in time so they'd have to go the long way round via Scotland!

Mikey C · 18 Jul 2026

The 323s are only slightly newer than the Networkers, and nobody is planning further use for them when they go.

The 323s were also weirdly non standard for a BR order. A tiny manufacturer, using dutch traction equipment. I assume Hunslet offered the best deal, and maybe BREL and Metro-Cammell weren't interested or too busy, but an AC Networker derivative would have ensured a lot more commonality going forward.

HamworthyGoods · 18 Jul 2026

Mikey C said:
The 323s were also weirdly non standard for a BR order. A tiny manufacturer, using dutch traction equipment. I assume Hunslet offered the best deal, and maybe BREL and Metro-Cammell weren't interested or too busy, but an AC Networker derivative would have ensured a lot more commonality going forward.

They were ordered privately by Regional Railways as the cost quoted by BREL for them building Cross-City EMUs was unaffordable.

61653 HTAFC · 18 Jul 2026

The 323 order was typical of how BR procurement was handled under the Major administration- throw a few scraps to the North, but then pull the plug a few months later rather than authorising the follow-on order for Airedale/Wharfedale.

Recessio · 19 Jul 2026

Mikey C said:
The 323s are only slightly newer than the Networkers, and nobody is planning further use for them when they go.

The 323s were also weirdly non standard for a BR order. A tiny manufacturer, using dutch traction equipment. I assume Hunslet offered the best deal, and maybe BREL and Metro-Cammell weren't interested or too busy, but an AC Networker derivative would have ensured a lot more commonality going forward.

I believe Hunslet were hoping (betting) on followup orders - I think a DMU/DEMU followup was being planned? But the 1991 recession and the pause on rolling stock procurement ~1993 onwards during privatisation finished off Hunslet.

If more Hunslet units had been ordered then the parts would be less "non-standard" as there would have been more fleets sharing at least some of the components. Alas.

Although even then given how little parts the two types of 465s shared (I once heard someone say "only the seats") maybe it still would have been that the 323s components were still unique!

D6130 · 19 Jul 2026

The 323s would be no use for recycling into razorblades and tin cans as they have aluminium bodies. They would also be unsuitable for the 'Chathill Flyer' as I believe they don't have toilets (see Blackpool).

Starmill · 19 Jul 2026

Modern Railways reckons the first example entered passenger service around the beginning of 1994. So that puts the ones currently at Northern on between 32 and 34 years of service approximately when they go off lease. A sensible life expiry if you ask me.

It has been suggested on here that the units that are off lease already are not serviceable and that in any case even if they were the parts have probably been raided now to keep the main fleet running.

D6130 said:
The 323s would be no use for recycling into razorblades and tin cans as they have aluminium bodies. They would also be unsuitable for the 'Chathill Flyer' as I believe they don't have toilets (see Blackpool).

They had space saver style loos from new, which have been replaced with a modern accessible loo on all of them now.

bramling · 19 Jul 2026

Mikey C said:
The 323s are only slightly newer than the Networkers, and nobody is planning further use for them when they go.

The 323s were also weirdly non standard for a BR order. A tiny manufacturer, using dutch traction equipment. I assume Hunslet offered the best deal, and maybe BREL and Metro-Cammell weren't interested or too busy, but an AC Networker derivative would have ensured a lot more commonality going forward.

Despite these quirks, the 323 has turned out to be a good train. It has the benefit of offering a lot of capacity for a 3-car train, and without being unduly cramped or uncomfortable. Interesting how there is an element of similarity to the Networkers.

TheWalrus · 19 Jul 2026

Zomboid said:
They could probably send a handful to Newcastle for the Morpeth and Chathill trains (though the Morpeths would need to reverse somewhere else and the interworking would need to charge) and free up some 158s.

Though they could equally do that with 350s, given they'll have more of those than they have 323s.

I don’t think the reversing sidings are electrified at Morpeth or Belford (for reversing Chathill terminators)?

Probably unlikely considering their age and non-standard nature, but could batteries be retrofitted?
I hope they keep some in service, using some for spare parts donors.

Recessio · 19 Jul 2026

D6130 said:
The 323s would be no use for recycling into razorblades and tin cans as they have aluminium bodies. They would also be unsuitable for the 'Chathill Flyer' as I believe they don't have toilets (see Blackpool).

Drinks cans are made of aluminum. I think that's probably more likely than seeing the units redeployed elsewhere on the railway.

geordieblue · 19 Jul 2026

TheWalrus said:
I don’t think the reversing sidings are electrified at Morpeth or Belford (for reversing Chathill terminators)?

Probably unlikely considering their age and non-standard nature, but could batteries be retrofitted?
I hope they keep some in service, using some for spare parts donors.

I think the one at Belford is but the one at Morpeth isn’t? (Might be wrong)

Possible future use of the 323s!? Your thoughts

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