Railway telegraph poles - how many are left...and in use?

Travelled Keith to Aberdeen last night and I was struck by some long runs of telegraph poles from Keith to Inverurie. The wires were down on some and there are piles of removed poles visible in Keith and Inverurie yards.

So I was wondering - are there any other runs of poles left? And any in actual use?

PS Apologies to the Mods if this should be somewhere else

Yes I noticed those Tel.poles and wires incl some down, several years ago I’m not sure if they were still in use though.

i have a feeling they were not in use and and were not removed because of the work involved despite the scrap value of copper wires and reuse demand for the poles ..rather like the now numerous disused freight lines, where no Management effort has been made by NR to recover the track for scrap or even reuse.

There can’t be many (? any) other lineside pole and wire routes surviving now on the Uk National rail system ..there are luckily however some still in use on some Heritage lines.

You are assuming that the wires are copper. Various alternatives were used, particularly when copper became a target for thieves. And the scrap value of old poles probably won't cover the cost of recovering them.

Belperpete said:

You are assuming that the wires are copper. Various alternatives were used, particularly when copper became a target for thieves. And the scrap value of old poles probably won't cover the cost of recovering them.

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Some wires used may have used steel to make them stronger but cheaper. Can't remember how they were made up (composition). I only worked with twin core steel "drop wire" (likely Dropwire No. 6) which was steel wire with a copper coating, they took more effort cutting them compared to copper when terminating them.

Some details of "drop wire" and how it was used are here:

OVERHEAD CONSTRUCTION - DROPWIRE

This was a game changer for connecting the overhead wiring to the customers premises in the 1930's. Before the introduction of dropwire the feed was open copper wires which terminated on a large two wire cable which ran down the wall to into the building.

Dropwire, which is a two wire, insulated cable could be used from the pole right into the building, as it was self supporting, lighter in weight and smaller than previous lead-in cables. It was a flat cable and no joints in the cable were required as it was run in a continuous length.

This obviously cheapened the install as some of the time consuming open wire to the premises was dispensed with. The parts were also cheaper to produce and it only consisted of a couple of component parts.

Dropwire was trailed at Golders Green in 1932. A circular plate with pre-drilled holes, called the "Drop wire pole head", was fitted to the top of the distribution poles. The plate had metal supports that were bolted to the pole. Eccentric wheels were used as cable clamps and these were bolted into the pre-drilled holes. The insulated twin wire was called "Cable, rubber covered and braided for drop wiring, one pair, Cadmium Copper Conductors" which is cleated from the "Block, Terminal" on the distribution pole to the "Drop wire pole head".

Dropwire started life as a braided cable filled with compound. The next step was a plastic covering which was more durable and lighter in weight. Two types were produced called Dropwire No. 1 and No. 2. In the 1960's the outer coating was made smaller and called Dropwire No. 3 and No. 4. As the cable got smaller and lighter a single man could install it and an installation was then done by the "One Man Installer".

Originally the conductor wires were copper, but in the 1960's steel conductors with a copper coating were introduced - Dropwire No. 3 and No. 4. Steel was good for self suspension purposes but one nick in the copper coating on outside terminations caused a large fault issue, as corrosion can set in rather rapidly. Dropwire No. 3 was replaced with Dropwire No. 6, which was more robust with a thick covering.

The 1980's saw a new dropwire introduced. This superseded all previous dropwire and was a self supporting, black, round cable with 4 conductors This was called Dropwire No. 10. Designed on similar lines, Dropwire Nos. 11, 12, 14 and 15 were produced.

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My memory tells me, and I might be wrong, that when large numbers were removed in the highlands that this left some birds, I suspect golden eagles, with no where to perch. So a few were replaced.

I admit that I could be totally wrong on this.

philthetube said:

My memory tells me, and I might be wrong, that when large numbers were removed in the highlands that this left some birds, I suspect golden eagles, with no where to perch. So a few were replaced.

I admit that I could be totally wrong on this.

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Ospreys perhaps?

QueensCurve said:

Ospreys perhaps?

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probably, but at least I am half right.

Not necessarily in use as per se, but the Wherry Lines has some telegraph poles near Reedham towards the junction for Berney Arms. East Suffolk Line had some along it but I don’t exactly remember where. The Breckland Line had some near Wymondham on the western side from memory.
First photo is the East Suffolk Line, second one is the Wherry Lines.

5 telegraph poles remain at the site of Woodhouse Mill station on the 'old road's between Chesterfield and Rotherham, not in use though. Bit difficult to see so arrows point

There's three poles adjacent to Windmill Bridge Junction opposite Selhurst depot; they even still have a bit of wire between them, albeit sagging heavily. The south end pole of the three is totally covered with ivy.

Not sure whether they are still there, but when I was driving on the Settle-Carlisle line (1992-2012) there were still two sections of pole/wire route extant....one between Griseburn and Helm Tunnel and the other between Little Salkeld and Long Meg viaduct.

There was the remains of some telegraph poles at Holywood (outside Dumfries) however they have since been cut down and removed during life extension works at the start of the year.

Actually wondered this myself the other day ( I have no clue, I've not seen any for decades ) - did get me thinking though, was there a preferred side of a multiple track route to run wires, and how did they cross if necessary? buried? tied to a bridge?

Irascible said:

Actually wondered this myself the other day ( I have no clue, I've not seen any for decades ) - did get me thinking though, was there a preferred side of a multiple track route to run wires, and how did they cross if necessary? buried? tied to a bridge?

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I don't know if there was a preferred side. But the route was partly determined by which side the signal boxes were on, the structures on the line (stations, bridges etc.) and geography (it's harder to put poles into rock, but you also don't want them to be put into soil that is too soft).

Some crossed via bridges, but mostly they just crossed overhead from one pole to another, with the height being sufficient so that the wires were well above the trains. But this was for lines that were not electrified.

I don't know the arrangements for electrified lines.

As cables became cheaper (and were less costly to maintain, buried cables were less likely to be stolen) and more capacity was needed (the railway often used 54 pair cables, that's 54 telephone circuits) they replaced any problematic pole routes.

Edited to make a correction.

54 pairs not 52

Annetts key said:

I don't know the arrangements for electrified lines.

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I’ve noticed many remaining stumps of poles on northern WCML embankments presumably cut down when electrification was installed & I understand the 4 meg coaxial system replaced them.

Wonderful thread-topic @sh24 At the risk of drifting a little off topic...

I was too young to properly appreciate the many semaphores in 1970s and early 1980s, along the Midland Main Line and around Lancashire / Yorkshire.
I used to watch out the compartment's window, watching the telegraph wires' rise-and-fall between each passing telegraph pole. Very mesmerising and soporiphic - interspersed with an occasional differing "arc".

Belperpete said:

And the scrap value of old poles probably won't cover the cost of recovering them.

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Eventually they will rot and fall, so it is not a good idea to leave them indefinitely. I'm not sure they would have any scrap value, not even as firewood because of the creosote in them.

The domestic electrical power poles in my area were all replaced recently. Talking to one of the work guys, he said they replaced them every 25-30 years, if they are creosoted (as they were all back then). Posts treated with creosote substitute last less well.

Sun Chariot said:

Wonderful thread-topic @sh24 At the risk of drifting a little off topic...

I was too young to properly appreciate the many semaphores in 1970s and early 1980s, along the Midland Main Line and around Lancashire / Yorkshire.
I used to watch out the compartment's window, watching the telegraph wires' rise-and-fall between each passing telegraph pole. Very mesmerising and soporiphic - interspersed with an occasional differing "arc".

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Brought back memories - though in my case of the ECML - presumably in the then still mechanically signalled Doncaster area.

Which preserved lines have them? I believe the Great Central does, and some at the Northampton and Lamport I think.

They’re an essential part of the scenery if recreating a certain area so would be nice to see more, even mock-up ones with say nylon rope replacing the cables, just to look the part but not function.

Irascible said:

Actually wondered this myself the other day ( I have no clue, I've not seen any for decades ) - did get me thinking though, was there a preferred side of a multiple track route to run wires, and how did they cross if necessary? buried? tied to a bridge?

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Where there is a road over bridge, the route is often cabled through the bridge, so it is simple to take the cable under the track to change sides.

On curves, tension in the wires will tend to pull the top of the poles inward to the centre point of the curve, and so stay wires may be needed to counteract this. If the pole route is on the outside of the track, then the stay wires will be needed to stop the poles being pulled towards the track, and will be on the boundary fence side of the poles. If the pole route is on the inside of the curve, then the stay wires will be needed on the trackside of the poles to prevent the poles being pulled away. If there is insufficient room between the pole and the track, then it may be necessary to run the stay wire horizontally above the track to a stayed pole on the other side of the track. This may have a bearing on which side of the line a route was run.

Where poles are mounted on embankment or cutting sides or tops, there will be a natural tendency for the poles to lean due to settlement. Again, stay wires are needed to counteract this. Again, I suspect that how best to stay the poles may have a bearing on which side of the line a route takes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2026 ==

JKF said:

Which preserved lines have them? I believe the Great Central does, and some at the Northampton and Lamport I think.

They’re an essential part of the scenery if recreating a certain area so would be nice to see more, even mock-up ones with say nylon rope replacing the cables, just to look the part but not function.

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The Ffestiniog still has them for part of its route.

Working at height up the top of a pole with a hot soldering iron (or even a pot of molten solder!), working on wires under significant tension, is a job that requires special skills, even in favourable weather. And the poles themselves need regular inspection by someone suitably qualified. Unfortunately such skilled workers are increasingly hard to find.

I am not sure how practical the idea of using nylon rope would be. You would need to find rope that wouldn't become brittle when exposed to sunlight over a long time, You would need a rope that wouldn't stretch when the temperature rises, particularly if the weight of the rope between spans meant the sag got progressively worse each time it got hot. Any rope will naturally absorb water by capillary action when wet, so the weight of a rope may increase dramatically when wet, you would need a rope that was sufficiently strong to support itself when soaking or frozen wet without sagging or snapping.

A marine-grade natural rope might be better than nylon, but would be expensive.

Whatever you string between the poles, it would need regular inspection, as a broken wire can potentially be a serious hazard, especially if it falls foul of the track. It can snag equipment on a passing train, or even someone looking out the train.

Belperpete said:

Working at height up the top of a pole with a hot soldering iron (or even a pot of molten solder!), working on wires under significant tension, is a job that requires special skills

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I'm pretty sure solder is not used. The telephone wire to my house goes through trees and is always breaking (every couple of years anyway) and I've never seen them soldering. Connections are twisted together and linemen are skilled at doing secure twists.

As there is still quite a lot of traditional block working around, how are bell codes transmitted if not by telegraph line?

Taunton said:

As there is still quite a lot of traditional block working around, how are bell codes transmitted if not by telegraph line?

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They're transmitted through lineside cables....either buried under the cross or placed in concrete troughing.

Belperpete said:

Where there is a road over bridge, the route is often cabled through the bridge, so it is simple to take the cable under the track to change sides.

On curves, tension in the wires will tend to pull the top of the poles inward to the centre point of the curve, and so stay wires may be needed to counteract this. If the pole route is on the outside of the track, then the stay wires will be needed to stop the poles being pulled towards the track, and will be on the boundary fence side of the poles. If the pole route is on the inside of the curve, then the stay wires will be needed on the trackside of the poles to prevent the poles being pulled away. If there is insufficient room between the pole and the track, then it may be necessary to run the stay wire horizontally above the track to a stayed pole on the other side of the track. This may have a bearing on which side of the line a route was run.

Where poles are mounted on embankment or cutting sides or tops, there will be a natural tendency for the poles to lean due to settlement. Again, stay wires are needed to counteract this. Again, I suspect that how best to stay the poles may have a bearing on which side of the line a route takes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jul 2026 ==


The Ffestiniog still has them for part of its route.

Working at height up the top of a pole with a hot soldering iron (or even a pot of molten solder!), working on wires under significant tension, is a job that requires special skills, even in favourable weather. And the poles themselves need regular inspection by someone suitably qualified. Unfortunately such skilled workers are increasingly hard to find.

I am not sure how practical the idea of using nylon rope would be. You would need to find rope that wouldn't become brittle when exposed to sunlight over a long time, You would need a rope that wouldn't stretch when the temperature rises, particularly if the weight of the rope between spans meant the sag got progressively worse each time it got hot. Any rope will naturally absorb water by capillary action when wet, so the weight of a rope may increase dramatically when wet, you would need a rope that was sufficiently strong to support itself when soaking or frozen wet without sagging or snapping.

A marine-grade natural rope might be better than nylon, but would be expensive.

Whatever you string between the poles, it would need regular inspection, as a broken wire can potentially be a serious hazard, especially if it falls foul of the track. It can snag equipment on a passing train, or even someone looking out the train.

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I was watching the Blue Lamp film recently and in the scene where Dirk Bogarde has crossed the line escaping capture you can see him climbing the embankment past a pole where the cables come down and cross under the bridge. We used to have a piece of kit called a Mox iron which was used to solder the copper whilst up the pole, it had a cartridge in it which was ignited by an extra long match and so heated the soldering tip up to temperature.

Lucan said:

I'm pretty sure solder is not used. The telephone wire to my house goes through trees and is always breaking (every couple of years anyway) and I've never seen them soldering. Connections are twisted together and linemen are skilled at doing secure twists.

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While twisting together gives reasonable mechanical strength, it isn't particularly good electrically. Do you have broadband coming through that wire?

I remembered that I have two old text books on the subject. A Manual of Telephony by Preece and Stubbs, and Railway Signalling and Telephony Installation and Maintenance (no author named). Both say that joints need to be both twisted AND soldered. "It is better for a badly soldered joint to pull apart". They also say that you shouldn't joint mid span.

However, both books are talking about circuits on pole routes that ran for mile upon mile, and on which electrical noise could soon become a problem. For a domestic telephone, where you probably have just a single span from a terminal pole to your home, it may not be such an issue.

I have certainly seen an old instructional film where they were using a solder pot which was heated on a small brazier thing on the ground, and then pulled up by rope. I can recall the Mox irons mentioned by the last poster, used by technicians. They have a substantially sized bit, as the conductors can dissipate the heat quickly.

The first mentioned book is an incredible book, with 31 chapters on just about everything you could think on telephony. Including a whole chapter of about 40 pages on pole route construction. But the list of other text books available is slightly mind blowing: the alkali makers handbook, agricultural engineering in India, Boyd on coal pits, illustrated dissections, screw and screw making, sewage treatment, submarine mining, the list just goes on and on for page after page. And more text books on dynamos than you could shake a stick at.

The second mentioned book also has a whole chapter on pole routes, fortunately more concise. It mentions the following considerations when planning a pole route:

the route should preferably be on the inside of curves, so that if a wire becomes detached, it will be pulled away from the line
the route should be as straight as possible
avoid sudden changes in horizontal level
avoid changes in ground level which would need long poles
average distance between poles 65 yards, less on curves, max 70 yards
spacing between poles to be as uniform as possible, especially at transpositions
soil conditions (eg some soil types give little support when waterlogged)
situations where a pole might slip
maximum shelter from the prevailing wind

A transposition is where they change the relative positions of the various circuits on the arms. So the inner swaps with the outer, or the circuits on the left side swap with those on the right side, and so on. For much the same reason as the cores in a cable are usually twisted, to reduce electrical interference.

Belperpete said:

While twisting together gives reasonable mechanical strength, it isn't particularly good electrically.

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A good quality (well made, not just a twist) mechanical joint made only using the copper conductor without solder (or anything else to make the connection) can be reliable for many, many years (well in excess of the years). But I agree, they are not really suitable for external joints where the weather can get at them.

For POTS telephone wires from a pole to a building, twin core figure 8 drop wire was normally used, as previously mentioned.

I did spend some time with the BR Telecom side (I was a Trainee Technician) but by then, there were no pole routes left that they used. So the drop wires all ran at ground level and terminated in either dis boxes or location cupboards, typically on 2BA terminal posts.

As I think I have already said, the only pole route that I had any involvement with only had one circuit. It went over a road (the line was a branch and was privately owned, not part of the BR network) and went across a main road. This was a direct line phone circuit to a signal box so was the responsibility of the signalling technician. And rather than repair or renew the existing wires, we found a way to get drop wire across each pole. So the entire length that had to go over the small number of poles was one continuous length. Terminated in dis boxes and locs. The rest of the circuit was ran using drop wire at ground level.

Inside a property I’ve certainly seen Openreach using jelly crimps to connect two cables. I would expect some sort of connector box would be the preferred route over solder or twisting together for a reliable connection.

JKF said:

Which preserved lines have them? I believe the Great Central does, and some at the Northampton and Lamport I think.

They’re an essential part of the scenery if recreating a certain area so would be nice to see more, even mock-up ones with say nylon rope replacing the cables, just to look the part but not function.

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Kent & East Sussex

JKF said:

Which preserved lines have them? I believe the Great Central does, and some at the Northampton and Lamport I think.

They’re an essential part of the scenery if recreating a certain area so would be nice to see more, even mock-up ones with say nylon rope replacing the cables, just to look the part but not function.

Click to expand...

The keighley worth valley railway still have em with wires on and used as well as the bells can be heard ringing on all six stations when the steam train is due incoming. I think as well the N.Y.M.R. has telegraph poles as well with wire on em if there still used I'm not sure as all the stations between pickering Grosmont barring newtondale are mechanically signalled.