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Even more widespread disruption across the UK rail network - what can be done?
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I think that the problem is that we learn by experience that certain rolling stock has particular vulnerabilities, but that maintenance depot staffing is so restricted and hide-bound by contracts and by shareholder pressures that ramping up attention on something that is outside the plan can't (or just won't) be done.
A current example might be vacuum cleaning A/C and engine cooling heat exchanger matrix inlet sides each night. "Not in the contract!" "Nobody on the staff to do it!" Who cares that it means loads of trains out of service and a nightmare for passengers? (Clue: it's not the accountants, they will claim the credit for not allowing any extra expenditure.)
Iskra
Established Member
Northern have very sensibly pre-emptively withdrawn the Yorkshire Flyer tomorrow, to hopefully improve overall reliability on that corridor during the hot weather.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
It’s not particular to the UK.
I’m in France this week where it is 33C. The local transport operator have just cut the frequencies on the buses and trams here by about 40% because they’re having lots of technical faults all caused by the heat.
I’m in France this week where it is 33C. The local transport operator have just cut the frequencies on the buses and trams here by about 40% because they’re having lots of technical faults all caused by the heat.
Today we attempted a journey from Freshford to Waterloo (via Salisbury).
Unfortunately there was signalling issues between Westbury and Warminster, combined with a level crossing issue at an unspecified location on the Exeter/Waterloo route. Also at Westbury all the passenger information screens were out of order so the poor platform staff were really struggling to sort out many questions.
We abandoned the journey and just enjoyed two trips on a 166 with no AC...
It's been suggested to me that we will not be booking any train tickets for long distance again, unfortunately I have to agree with this opinion. Especially as it is the same time and cheaper to drive to London now than take a train.
Unfortunately there was signalling issues between Westbury and Warminster, combined with a level crossing issue at an unspecified location on the Exeter/Waterloo route. Also at Westbury all the passenger information screens were out of order so the poor platform staff were really struggling to sort out many questions.
We abandoned the journey and just enjoyed two trips on a 166 with no AC...
It's been suggested to me that we will not be booking any train tickets for long distance again, unfortunately I have to agree with this opinion. Especially as it is the same time and cheaper to drive to London now than take a train.
JohnofWessex
Member
What I suggest we are looking at is a combination of extreme heat which is becoming increasingly common and under inveatment.
If Reliability was made a priority and the necessary money spent then things could be better
If Reliability was made a priority and the necessary money spent then things could be better
Peterthegreat
Established Member
Northern Flyers also withdrawn tomorrow (Friday) and Saturday.
Don't forget that it is necessary to spend money ("invest") in looking after what assets you have already got to get the best out of them. There is no "fit and forget" - especially on the operating railway.
Unfortunately, in today's world, paying enough people to maintain or look after things is out of fashion. I can't understand why, when even software needs maintaining - and that doesn't have a hard life like the railway's physical assets do!
Haywain
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What is the Yorkshire Flyer or Northern Flyer?
Peterthegreat
Established Member
It is the "fast" service between Leeds and Sheffield calling only at Wakefield Westgate. It should run hourly on the opposite half hour to the Cross Country service. It started operation with the December 2025 service.
It's normally formed of a single class 158 unit.
Iskra
Established Member
Also, worth mentioning that it's very much squeezed into the timetable and that there are 5tph still between Leeds and Sheffield per hour still without it, although some of them are long journey times and others are inadequately formed. Withdrawing the Flyer improves reliability on the key stretch of the ECML spur from Leeds to the junction for Moorthorpe, and no single station loses its service so it doesn't incur much (if any) delay repay cost.
EuxtonNeutral
Member
Records are being broken every year now. Record-breaking heat is no longer a rare occurrence. Thanks to the el-Nino, these records will likely be broken again in 2027, set to be the hottest year on record (again). I think it’s important to be straight with ourselves: extreme weather is the new normal.
Haywain
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Something that has never happened before is, by definition, unique. Therefore it cannot be anything other than rare.
Howardh
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Must admit to being educated about pollen affecting rolling stock! Never thought that was a thing! Personally had a horrible few days with pollen fever, swollen eyes, glands, burning face etc, used up my full supply of prednisolone!
The odd thing was the met office site said pollen was "low" while other weather apps said "high to severe".
Tree pollen is easy to see as alluded to, what filters does a train have, I could do with some attached to my portable air con!
The odd thing was the met office site said pollen was "low" while other weather apps said "high to severe".
Tree pollen is easy to see as alluded to, what filters does a train have, I could do with some attached to my portable air con!
EuxtonNeutral
Member
Numerous heat records have been broken so far this year. 6, at the very least. More to come. This has occurred regularly in the last few years, with 2022 another extreme year. Next year will be worse because of el-Nino. The science predicts ongoing heating.
It is now not rare for UK summer heat records to be broken. Which means that it is not rare for 30C + temperatures to occur in summer.
For the purposes of infrastructure planning policy, that is the relevant reality. It seems important that the railway (and society as a whole) should grasp this.
mike57
Established Member
Since around 2000 the highest summer temperatures have increased by about 4C, this isnt the average annual temperature rise which is lower, but its maximums which cause the disruptions. It seems likely that 40.2C of 2022 will be exceeded again soon, with 40C eventually occuring most years. Given that the infrastructure life cycle is much much longer than the current rate of climate change there are problems ahead.
So are there any short term measures to try and mitigate what will undoubtably become a recurring problem every summer. Obviously maintenance is important, but operating something 5C above its design temperature is going to result in problems and failures. The recent Eurostar changes to their new fleet (45C > 55C) are an indicator of what needs to be done long term, but there is an awful lot of stuff that probably has anything from 10-30 years life that may not be able to cope with the conditions that occur during the later part of its life.
I would also ask if UK rail procurement is making changes to requirements now, the Eurostar change looks like a sensible response, but UK procurement is driven by the treasury, and 'cheap as possible, just about adequate' seems to be the mode of operation. Are current rolling stock orders taking rising temperatures into account?
I think the future is going to look like what Renfe are doing with buses/coaches, especially outside of London.
Renfe already have 10 year plans with partners, and they think there could be a 900% increase in demand in the future to cover more parts of the rail network.
(edit: to clarify my meaning: I meant the British government copying what Renfe are doing in Spain with expanding their use of buses to serve their 'rail' network. For the avoidance of doubt, I did not mean Renfe would be running a part of the UK rail network, neither with trains nor buses. By "outside of London" I was speculating this plan would be implemented more so outside of London)
Renfe already have 10 year plans with partners, and they think there could be a 900% increase in demand in the future to cover more parts of the rail network.
(edit: to clarify my meaning: I meant the British government copying what Renfe are doing in Spain with expanding their use of buses to serve their 'rail' network. For the avoidance of doubt, I did not mean Renfe would be running a part of the UK rail network, neither with trains nor buses. By "outside of London" I was speculating this plan would be implemented more so outside of London)
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Haywain
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I had no idea they were operating in an area that we might consider to be "outside of London". Perhaps you could enlighten us.
My recent experience of RENFE (Seville/Huelva/Cadiz) is of woefully inadequate infrequent short D- and E-multiple units with compulsory reservations - and a thriving inter-urban coach service paralleling rail lines, running hourly, both non-stop and calling intermediately - and extras put on if the number of reservations goes over the first bus-full.
Sounds like a very successful operation with the coaches. It's nobody idea of perfect (that would be high speed trains), but it sounds pragmatic and something they got into place relatively quickly (?). I think that's commendable.
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Replacing a train with a coach is rarely a “successful operation” except in the eyes of the bean-counters in an office so far away that they don’t actually have to use the so-called “service”.
mike57
Established Member
Having spoken to a couple of friends who now live in Spain I understand that the Spanish motorway network is in general no where near as congested as the UK network for the most part. In the UK a lot of significant rail destinations are also a considerable distance from a motorway or equivilent standard road. As a result journey times will extend and comfort will decrease to the point where I suspect the public transport option would be dimissed by most people.
I get it, this is a rail forum. And our current approach to RRB is generally not great. I don't see the need to be so dismissive though, especially when someone appears to be highlighting a successful operation.
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Got some examples? And what do you consider considerable? Remember a lot significant rail destinations (I assume you mean stations in large towns/cities) are not the actual beginning or end of a person's journey
Andrew E’s post explains - AIUI the “operation” is not running RRBs during disruption but abandoning train services and substituting with buses on a permanent basis. If that is wrong, then I apologise.
I mentioned RRBs in the context that it's the closest thing we have to compare, and assumed that's what your opinion of coaches run by the railway is based on. I think we're close to talking past each other
Possibly. I also gave plenty of experience of buses operated by the Deutsche Bundesbahn as a supplement to skeleton rail services - not impressed.
EuxtonNeutral
Member
mike57
Established Member
Locally to me Scarborough is a good example its around 40 miles to the nearest 'decent' road (York). It has a very seasonal flow, with overcrowding at busy times. Rail takes 50 minutes to York. The road journey even at quiet times is about 1h 20m in a car, and would be longer in a coach, and at busy times, which is when the extra capacity is needed will be around 2hrs, or even longer if as happens frequently, there is an accident.